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Thread: Saturday Jan. 2nd US Air flight and airport...INSANE!

  1. #21
    Senior Member Chadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randi View Post
    I understand that this happens but the anger by everyone was a) having to go through the security again and b) why couldn't they have realized that with the original flight having a 2.5 hour delay that they would be over they flight allowance and just told everyone earlier. We wouldn't have had to wait in the airport for 6 hours for nothing!! We would had an extra 6 hours in Aruba rather than the airport. This is what common sense is all about.
    There are a lot of variables when it comes to "timing out". There are flight time limitations and total day length limitations. It sounds like this is a day length limitation, as I believe they usually have an in flight relief officer on the Aruba turn out of Philly. Something as simple as a little more or less wind from one forecast to the next is enough to scrub a flight, especially on one that is several hours long and you are pushing up against duty time limitations. The solution to that is to have the crews overnight in Aruba, but that raises costs and reduces crew efficiency. The Aruba trips go very senior as you spend almost all of your time in the air, and crews only get paid when the door is closed.

    The crew was most likely trying to get back to Philly as well, since that is a day trip and I would expect that at least some of the crew didn't have a bag packed with the expectation of staying the night. The commuters most likely did though.

    Glad to hear you got your bag back too. My wife had to go a day without her checked bag last year. Any time flights get changed, the odds of your bag being delayed go up. My guess is the ticketing issue you mentioned, is the source of the problem.
    Last edited by Chadd; 01-05-2010 at 12:46 AM.

  2. #22
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    Chadd,
    Totally understand what you are saying but not just the crew has to be considered. The flight crew knew that the flight wasn't going but they boarded us on anyway??

    You still have to figure that with only a short time to allow this flight to leave compared to the late arrival, you must consider the customer not just the employees. As I stated, no one would have been happy being told upon arrival or even at 3 or 4pm that our flight was going to be cancelled but it still would have been a better alternative to what they did!!! For someone like us, who needed to make a connection, this would have allowed us other possibilities for rerouting. Perhaps they could have placed us on another flight/airline? If not, we could have had our connection changed on Saturday properly rather than scramble on Sunday morning. We were at the airport at 6 am to work this out but the ticket desk opened at 6:30am not allowing the three hours to get through security which in our case almost cost us our flight due to our issues.

    Things happened and people need to be understanding but on the other end, airlines need to be fair to us... the paying customer!! That is why government ends up stepping in and impossing regulations.
    happiness is going to Aruba with your adult kids because they still want to come with their parents

  3. #23
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    Andrea J.'s Avatar
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    thanks for the explaination
    Quote Originally Posted by Chadd View Post
    There are a lot of variables when it comes to "timing out". There are flight time limitations and total day length limitations. It sounds like this is a day length limitation, as I believe they usually have an in flight relief officer on the Aruba turn out of Philly. Something as simple as a little more or less wind from one forecast to the next is enough to scrub a flight, especially on one that is several hours long and you are pushing up against duty time limitations. The solution to that is to have the crews overnight in Aruba, but that raises costs and reduces crew efficiency. The Aruba trips go very senior as you spend almost all of your time in the air, and crews only get paid when the door is closed.

    The crew was most likely trying to get back to Philly as well, since that is a day trip and I would expect that at least some of the crew didn't have a bag packed with the expectation of staying the night. The commuters most likely did though.

    Glad to hear you got your bag back too. My wife had to go a day without her checked bag last year. Any time flights get changed, the odds of your bag being delayed go up. My guess is the ticketing issue you mentioned, is the source of the problem.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Chadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randi View Post
    Chadd,
    Totally understand what you are saying but not just the crew has to be considered. The flight crew knew that the flight wasn't going but they boarded us on anyway??

    You still have to figure that with only a short time to allow this flight to leave compared to the late arrival, you must consider the customer not just the employees. As I stated, no one would have been happy being told upon arrival or even at 3 or 4pm that our flight was going to be cancelled but it still would have been a better alternative to what they did!!! For someone like us, who needed to make a connection, this would have allowed us other possibilities for rerouting. Perhaps they could have placed us on another flight/airline? If not, we could have had our connection changed on Saturday properly rather than scramble on Sunday morning. We were at the airport at 6 am to work this out but the ticket desk opened at 6:30am not allowing the three hours to get through security which in our case almost cost us our flight due to our issues.

    Things happened and people need to be understanding but on the other end, airlines need to be fair to us... the paying customer!! That is why government ends up stepping in and impossing regulations.
    It's a tough spot for everyone and I would be pissed if I was in your place. I'm not trying to justify any actions, as my thoughts are simply that, my thoughts based on my experience in the industry. I've also witnessed my fair share of mistakes on the part of airline employees, we all make mistakes from time to time.

    Unfortunately, the situation is a result of all the cost cutting measures that airlines have had to employ in order to provide the low cost tickets that make it possible for so many people to fly. Every airline is going to try and run the flight right up until the minute that they can not legally take off. The airline lost several thousand dollars on that flight because of the duty time limitation, it's obviously something they try to avoid to the best of their ability. It would have been very difficult for a dispatcher to justify that loss several hours earlier by saying the crew would "probably" time out, especially if it was close.

    The timing issue in the morning is most likely due to giving the crew minimum contractual or legal rest before getting back to the airport. Having to shuffle aircraft and crew around after a situation like this can be a nightmare. By the time you finally got back, that aircraft was likely scheduled to work three or four other flights.

    More often than not, some passengers will be put on other flights and other airlines if at all possible. I saw that happen last April when our inbound aircraft broke in flight and returned for a crew and aircraft swap. By the time we boarded, something like six hours late, half the plane was empty. There simply wasn't room on the other flights/airlines for everyone. The worst part is we were not able to leave as Aruban passport control and US customs closed and we would have been unable to return to the gate. I was there from 11:30AM until we boarded at 9PM or so, most of that in the gate area.

    As for government involvement, the airline followed long standing regulation by covering hotel as it was a "controllable" cancellation or delay. The newly instituted regulations regarding taxi time are going to result in a significant increase in weather cancellations and those don't require any compensation on the part of the airlines. Punishing a system that the government is partly responsible for creating, without doing anything to resolve the situation, borders on criminal behavior. There have obviously been some utterly heinous situations that people have been forced to endure but I don't believe that the new regulations are the right way to address the problems. This is like treating the victim of a stabbing by simply stopping the bleeding but leaving the knife in the body.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Chadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea J. View Post
    thanks for the explaination
    Most people never get to see all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes, and far too many employees forget what it's like to be on the other side. I just do my best to keep a foot in both worlds and help people understand the mechanics of the situation. Far too often the relationship between employees and passengers has become adversarial. The truth is, we need each other and we might as well try to get along.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadd View Post
    Most people never get to see all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes, and far too many employees forget what it's like to be on the other side. I just do my best to keep a foot in both worlds and help people understand the mechanics of the situation. Far too often the relationship between employees and passengers has become adversarial. The truth is, we need each other and we might as well try to get along.
    That is so true! When we were deplaning, once they cancelled the flight, a young woman started mouthing off to one of the US Air employees who works in Aruba (we have dealt with this woman on a few occassions and she is very nice and professional). She told her to not come back tomorrow with that kind of attitude or she wouldn't be allowed on the plane...good for the US Air employee! Although we were all angry, the Aruba staff were excellent and they dealt with the situation, which was beyond their control, in a very professional and organized manner. No one needs to be talked to like. Especially from a woman that looks like she was around 22 years old.

    As far as travelling with carry ons, we always travel with two larger carry ons for two reasons. One is that the airlines are always loosing luggage and we want to ensure that we do have some clothing for two days in case of a lost baggage and we always need to overnight some place. We keep our next days worth of clothes and small amount of toiletries so we don't have to start opening up all of our luggage.

    Since the Dec. 25th incident, the airlines were asking people to limit their carry ons and they would waive the fees for additional baggages. When we did that they originally wanted to charge us for the two extra bags but when we told them that the fees were to be waived, they didn't charge us. I don't know why they tried to get us to pay at first. The same thing happened to our kids who left on an earlier flight the same day.
    happiness is going to Aruba with your adult kids because they still want to come with their parents

  7. #27
    Senior Member princess's Avatar
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    This may be a little off topic, but while reading this thread I was reminded of an old story;

    For all of you out there who've had to deal with an irate
    customer, this one is for you. It's a classic! In tribute to those
    'special' customers we all love! An award should go to the United Airlines
    gate agent in Denver for being smart and funny, while making her point,
    when confronted with a passenger who probably deserved to fly as cargo.

    A crowded United Airlines flight was canceled.
    A single agent was rebooking a long line of inconvenienced travelers.
    Suddenly an angry passenger pushed his way to the desk. He slapped his
    ticket down on the counter and said,
    "I HAVE to be on this flight and it has to be FIRST CLASS."
    The agent replied, "I'm sorry sir. I'll be happy to try to help you, but
    I've got to help these folks first, and I'm sure we'll be able to work
    something out."
    The passenger was unimpressed. He asked loudly, so that the
    passengers behind him could hear, "DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHO I AM?"
    Without hesitating, the agent smiled and grabbed her public address
    microphone. "May I have your attention please," she began, her voice heard
    clearly throughout the terminal.
    "We have a passenger here at Gate 14 WHO DOES NOT KNOW WHO HE IS. If
    anyone can help him find his identity, please come to Gate 14."
    With the folks behind him in line laughing hysterically, the man
    glared at the United agent, gritted his teeth and swore. "F*** You!"
    Without flinching, she smiled and said, "I'm sorry, sir, but you'll have to
    get in line for that, too.


  8. #28
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    love that story!

  9. #29
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    That is great but is it true? Sometimes the ticket agent could get in trouble for doing something like that.
    happiness is going to Aruba with your adult kids because they still want to come with their parents

  10. #30
    Aruba since 1979
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    i am pretty certain it is not true, bot boy don't you wish it were?
    Quote Originally Posted by Randi View Post
    That is great but is it true? Sometimes the ticket agent could get in trouble for doing something like that.

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