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Thread: Saturday Jan. 2nd US Air flight and airport...INSANE!

  1. #41
    Senior Member Chadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randi View Post
    Re: Carry ons

    What gets me very angry is when people are seated at the back of the plane put their carry on in the front of the plane! I have seen this happen thousands of time and this makes things so difficult for the people who want to put their carry ons above their seat. Don't know why the flight attendants don't "nip that one in the bud"!!
    Because most flight attendants look to avoid conflict as much as possible. I agree with you though, it's annoying and selfish. I tend to see an amazing amount of selfish behavior when I'm working though, it seems that too many people leave their courtesy at home when they travel.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadd View Post
    Because most flight attendants look to avoid conflict as much as possible. I agree with you though, it's annoying and selfish. I tend to see an amazing amount of selfish behavior when I'm working though, it seems that too many people leave their courtesy at home when they travel.
    Why couldn't they just say nicely, Sir could you please place your carry on at your seat? No real conflict and the person would probably be embarrassed and just move along. The problem then creates trying to find space for the carry on and taking up time, etc.
    happiness is going to Aruba with your adult kids because they still want to come with their parents

  3. #43
    Senior Member SanNic44's Avatar
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    Randi,

    I gave up on US Air (useless Air) years ago. They simply couldn't do the job. A friend of mine had such bad experiences in the US and internationally lately that he's giving up on them, too. I know many people have had bad experiences on American but I have been fortunate to Aruba, around the USA, and elsewhere.

    All the airlines have their troubles and as I've stated in other posts, the tickets are too cheap to provide good service. The inevitable race to the bottom in terms of lowest price has ruined the industry (the way it did the railroads 40 years ago). How can you fly a plane from Philadelphia to Aruba (2004 miles) for average $400 a seat? Let's say you have 250 people on board, that's $100,000 dollars round trip (4008) miles. Sounds like a lot of money? Think again. That plane probably costs about $70 million. Lets say it burns 8,000 gallons of fuel (I don't know the actual number) each way, that's 16,000 gallons at say a discounted price of $2 gallon. $32,000 for fuel. Now a crew, maintenance, debt service, etc. Subtract all that from the remaining $68,000 and you'll get a negative number. The proof? The major airlines are effectively operating in a state of bankruptcy, supported only by government, supplies like Boeing and GE, and the dreams of a better future. No way to run a railroad or an airline.

    With regard to the placing of carry ons in the front of the plane while seated in the back, I have to admit this is very annoying. On American, I have had great help with this issue. I arrived at my seat to find the overhead bin in the process of being "STACKED" by others. I politely asked the steward if I might place my single carryon up there (I would have put it under the seat but it was just a little too big) and the fellow said absolutely. He promptly told the STACKERS to take their luggage to their own seats and I placed mine there.

    And as for courtesy during travel, it hardly exists anymore. Flying is no longer fun, not the least bit classy, and rude as anything can be. For some reason, people have come to think that a plane ticket entitles them to every possible whim. The person next to them, in front of them, whoever, be damned. I no longer tolerate this. I used to avoid "making a fuss." Now, when someone acts like an idiot, I let them know. Zero tolerance for seat kickers, unruly children roaming the cabin, loiterers at the galley, and such.

    The more crass behavior we tolerate the more we'll have.

    Sad but true.

    44
    Aruba's Novelist in Residence (sometimes)
    http://www.bentpage.wordpress.com/

  4. #44
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    san nic your post is "awesome"


  5. #45
    Senior Member Chadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanNic44 View Post
    Randi,

    I gave up on US Air (useless Air) years ago. They simply couldn't do the job. A friend of mine had such bad experiences in the US and internationally lately that he's giving up on them, too. I know many people have had bad experiences on American but I have been fortunate to Aruba, around the USA, and elsewhere.

    All the airlines have their troubles and as I've stated in other posts, the tickets are too cheap to provide good service. The inevitable race to the bottom in terms of lowest price has ruined the industry (the way it did the railroads 40 years ago). How can you fly a plane from Philadelphia to Aruba (2004 miles) for average $400 a seat? Let's say you have 250 people on board, that's $100,000 dollars round trip (4008) miles. Sounds like a lot of money? Think again. That plane probably costs about $70 million. Lets say it burns 8,000 gallons of fuel (I don't know the actual number) each way, that's 16,000 gallons at say a discounted price of $2 gallon. $32,000 for fuel. Now a crew, maintenance, debt service, etc. Subtract all that from the remaining $68,000 and you'll get a negative number. The proof? The major airlines are effectively operating in a state of bankruptcy, supported only by government, supplies like Boeing and GE, and the dreams of a better future. No way to run a railroad or an airline.

    With regard to the placing of carry ons in the front of the plane while seated in the back, I have to admit this is very annoying. On American, I have had great help with this issue. I arrived at my seat to find the overhead bin in the process of being "STACKED" by others. I politely asked the steward if I might place my single carryon up there (I would have put it under the seat but it was just a little too big) and the fellow said absolutely. He promptly told the STACKERS to take their luggage to their own seats and I placed mine there.

    And as for courtesy during travel, it hardly exists anymore. Flying is no longer fun, not the least bit classy, and rude as anything can be. For some reason, people have come to think that a plane ticket entitles them to every possible whim. The person next to them, in front of them, whoever, be damned. I no longer tolerate this. I used to avoid "making a fuss." Now, when someone acts like an idiot, I let them know. Zero tolerance for seat kickers, unruly children roaming the cabin, loiterers at the galley, and such.

    The more crass behavior we tolerate the more we'll have.

    Sad but true.

    44
    While I agree with much of your post, I do have to take issue with one point. The government is not subsidizing airlines, there were loans issued after September 11 2001, but all of those loans were repaid, with interest, to the best of my knowledge. Most airlines have added fees, restructured debt, sold off assets or reduced staffing in order to increase liquidity.

    Looked up the current fuel numbers to help back up your claim on that too. Airbus A320 such as Jet Blue, US Airways and United fly burn just under 6,000 pounds of Jet-A per hour of flight. A 737 (American, Delta, Continental, etc...) will burn roughly the same amount. A roughly four hour flight brings it up to 24k pounds of fuel burned each way or 48k for the round trip. At roughly 6.8 pounds per gallon you get 3500 gallons each way and the price at the close of market yesterday was $2.22 per gallon. Total cost of fuel each way is just over $7000. Unfortunately those aircraft only seat around 150, so each person is paying a bigger share.

    There was a very good show about American Airlines on CNBC a couple years ago that still sees regular play to this day. One segment documented a NY-LA flight and all the associated costs. Anyone with an interest in aviation may find it interesting.

  6. #46
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    Originally posted by SanNic 44:

    And as for courtesy during travel, it hardly exists anymore. Flying is no longer fun, not the least bit classy, and rude as anything can be. For some reason, people have come to think that a plane ticket entitles them to every possible whim. The person next to them, in front of them, whoever, be damned. I no longer tolerate this. I used to avoid "making a fuss." Now, when someone acts like an idiot, I let them know. Zero tolerance for seat kickers, unruly children roaming the cabin, loiterers at the galley, and such

    Let's add to the list of annoying passenger behaviors - those sitting behind you who, when getting up, pull on your seat for leverage, waking you from a deep sleep.
    Last edited by Aruba76; 01-08-2010 at 08:48 AM.

  7. #47
    Senior Member cindyo's Avatar
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    I only have GLEAMING reports for American Airlines...they have come to our rescue twice, on very big things for us...Rob's accident they moved our flight, fixed the frequent flyer issues associated with it, and changed our flight without any requests during the snow storm in Boston, again on their own !!!!
    AMERICAN AIRLINES THANK YOU...I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE !!!!
    I have not used USAir, but from what I read, I will stay away.
    Thank you all for your info out there and nightmare stories, I find all of this very interesting, and a good point of reference.
    I figured some good "press" for a airlines is a good thing on this thread.

  8. #48
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    I have to say that although I was/am not happy with US AIR, honestly, it could have happened on any airline...they are all really the same when it comes to cost cutting/saving measures.
    As a regular of Air Canada, I can tell you that some of my dealings with policy and customer service, US Air can be better than our national airline. A lot also has to do with who you speak to and how you speak to them.

    SanNic 44, how did you ask people to remove their stuff? How did the flight attendant or you, for that matter know that the bags above your seat didn't belong to someone who was seated around you? I would love to do this but DH would never go for that! We get to board early (which helps in getting space for carry on) so I get to see all the people who walk on, drop their bags in the front and continue on to the back of the plane. Perhaps the flight attendants could monitor this more carefully as people from the back of the plane can easily be spotted stopping and placing their luggage in the front!
    happiness is going to Aruba with your adult kids because they still want to come with their parents

  9. #49
    Senior Member purpleangel's Avatar
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    As with most things in life, it all depends on one's personal experiences. I have flown US Scare and/or United every time I go to Aruba and have not had any issues at all.

  10. #50
    Senior Member SanNic44's Avatar
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    Chadd,

    Thank you for the correct data on the fuel burn and seating numbers.

    Still, various governments are subsidizing air travel by paying to build/expand/support airports. This is not exclusive to air travel. The government takes money from gasoline taxes and gives it to mass transit as well. My point is not to argue public policy, simply to illustrate how it is too cheap to fly.

    I love to fly small aircraft, but we pilots (and those who own airplanes) are not paying the true cost of the activity. This is also passed on to the public in various hidden ways and I do not support that one bit.

    Personally, I do not want to pay more. However, I recognize that you have to pay to play. And if we want safe, on-time, well-staffed, and reliable air transport, the price must increase. If not, it will be a lurch from one crisis to another.

    Consider that most major airports are always at full capacity or beyond. Why? After all these years there is plenty of data available to accurately determine how many flights can takeoff/land in a given time period. That's a physical limit. Hence, why schedule more? This is moronic. If JFK can only handle 200 flights per hour (or whatever the actual limit is) that's the end of it. More than that only pushes the schedule into chaos. And if that means the gate slots must be auctioned off, so be it. You want to fly from a given airport at a given time, well, the price will be appropriate.

    Instead we have attempts to please everybody (each airline bellyaches, the passengers whine, the politicians dip their nose into the mess) and this results in zero progress. Let's all stop lying to each other such as: Scheduling a zillion flights for the same hour... which is like... Flexing our flabby bellies in front of the mirror and thinking we look like Brad Pitt.

    Then again, there are so many cooks in this kitchen the meal is sure to be garbage.

    44

    PS: Always do your checklist.
    Aruba's Novelist in Residence (sometimes)
    http://www.bentpage.wordpress.com/

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