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Thread: Update on getting our house back from the Lawyer/renter

  1. #41
    CK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaby View Post
    I may have missed something but does this guy have a lease? If the lease is up, does Aruban authorities say that he can still stay there? Because that would mean a lease is a useless document & Aruba can't possibly have a judicial system that is more backwards than an under developed third world country, can they? I mean if a lease is up, don't renew it. I know that sounds simple but it's pretty basic law in most countries.
    I'm not sure if I understood it right but I believe there is a lease which was for one year at a low rent with the clause that the house might be sold during that time (however, this tenant never any prospective buyer in to see the house) and after that first year it should be determined if the lease will be continued or not. Which, IMO, is one of the huge problems that this tenant takes now advantage of as there was not a clear, limited time frame stated.

    Many times, Aruban laws are based on Dutch law. Which is similar to German law. To get rid of a tenant is very difficult as many times apartments and houses which get rented out are seen as "investments". Many times, the landlord has to go to court to get a tenant out.

    If the landlord claims he wants to move into the apartment or house himself, that would be a good reason to ask the tenant to move out. However, the bar of proof in court is very high if the tenant refuses to move out. Sometimes, the tenant asks for a substantial amount of money (I believe 5% of the value of the property!!!) which is NOT seen as extortion in a court of law. But to help the tenant with the costs of moving, remodeling a new apartment/house etc.

    Here are two articles in German (wished I could find an English version) based on German law which explains a bit the laws and the process:

    http://www.makler-vergleich.de/immob...kuendigen.html

    http://www.makler-vergleich.de/immob...uendigung.html

    I wished there would be an easier way that Lizzardo could get back her house in Aruba.

  2. #42
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    Here is a good article which explains some of Aruba's law:

    Rental market is strongly pro-tenant

    http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Caribbean/aruba/Landlord-and-Tenant

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    Thank you CK1. I worked in court for over 25 years and though it was not lower court, I do know it was difficult but not years worth. Even if you didn't pay your mortgage, it took about 6 months but you forfeited your house if there were foreclosure proceedings. This thing in Aruba is a joke. It is beyond their law and just basically saying the tenant has rights, the landlord has zero rights and please feel free to come to our country and basically screw any landlord you can find stupid enough to rent to you.

    I believe the lesson here is either live in the house full time or don't buy one on this island. even if you buy one and come a few times a year, there is still the chance someone can see you're not here for a few months at a time and basically move in (squatter) and you are in trouble as happened to someone else on this forum. I think I'll just rent and if I want to invest in property, it will be in the USA.

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatti..._United_States

    I think this is a tricky issue no matter where you buy.

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    the only difference is in the US, squatters are harder to get out of vacant bldgs. Not so with rental places. If a rental is vacant for a couple of months waiting for a tenant, that squatter would be out in no time. its harder when its a vacant bldg basically falling into ruins. in the USA, its harder to get a tenant out if they are paying rent, though no longer than 3 months I've ever seen in 25 years in court. Foreclosures take longer.

    But what's happening in Aruba would not happen here or many places. This seems like it borders on "let's just annoy the Americans", lol. I'm not saying its so but I seriously can not believe that a Judge of any caliber can not see through this and say okay, enough is enough, you've had your fun, get out now, give them back their house. I'm sorry, no one is going to convince me that there is not some inside shenanigans going on here.

  6. #46
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    with all due respect gaby it did and it does happen here in the usa...it took us 3+ years for us to throw our tenants out from an investment property in MA beginning in 1998.
    non payment of rent for 18 mos and the judge sided with the tenant and said "she has lost her job and has young children, give her the benefit to stay and try to find work"
    finally another 19 mos went by and another judge tossed their sorry bums!

    we lost over $50K and had to pay court costs.


    and in regard to this housing tenant landlord dilemma, I quote Robert Evans:

    There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each differently.

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    the he squatting situation

    Quote Originally Posted by gaby View Post
    the only difference is in the US, squatters are harder to get out of vacant bldgs. Not so with rental places. If a rental is vacant for a couple of months waiting for a tenant, that squatter would be out in no time. its harder when its a vacant bldg basically falling into ruins. in the USA, its harder to get a tenant out if they are paying rent, though no longer than 3 months I've ever seen in 25 years in court. Foreclosures take longer.

    But what's happening in Aruba would not happen here or many places. This seems like it borders on "let's just annoy the Americans", lol. I'm not saying its so but I seriously can not believe that a Judge of any caliber can not see through this and say okay, enough is enough, you've had your fun, get out now, give them back their house. I'm sorry, no one is going to convince me that there is not some inside shenanigans going on here.

    Gaby. This seems like it borders on "let's just annoy the Americans", lol. I'm not saying its so


    i am aware of others in the same predicament and they are NOT Americans

    Sad this has become a thread where different cultures and the differences of people's is being criticized

    i wonder if Anyone can indicate what it would take to get this Dutch law amended.

    J
    Last edited by aquaman; 04-17-2015 at 12:27 PM.

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    I can't answer for MA, only for NJ. And I am so familiar with three sides to a story since every judge quotes that ad nauseum in court, lol. I even had a brief form for it, lol.

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    Very sad... renters have more rights then the "owners"
    We rented our house in Cape Cod and they were not paying their rent. Cutting trees down on our property for the fireplace.
    The judge there gave them more time and continued because they had "kids" Well we did too.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaby View Post
    Thank you CK1. I worked in court for over 25 years and though it was not lower court, I do know it was difficult but not years worth. Even if you didn't pay your mortgage, it took about 6 months but you forfeited your house if there were foreclosure proceedings. This thing in Aruba is a joke. It is beyond their law and just basically saying the tenant has rights, the landlord has zero rights and please feel free to come to our country and basically screw any landlord you can find stupid enough to rent to you.

    I believe the lesson here is either live in the house full time or don't buy one on this island. even if you buy one and come a few times a year, there is still the chance someone can see you're not here for a few months at a time and basically move in (squatter) and you are in trouble as happened to someone else on this forum. I think I'll just rent and if I want to invest in property, it will be in the USA.
    You are welcome, Gaby. First, I want to say that I feel very sorry for Lizzardo, that this situation is going on for so long. I'm no expert to the law and I don't know why the judge is allowing this to go on for that long, I guess this lawyer tenant found a loophole in the contract and knows how to argue in court to his favor. Unfortunately, it's a lousy lease agreement which gave him already an advantage, IMO.

    I don't blame the Aruban or Dutch law as they seem familiar to me. I spent half my life in Germany which has similar laws but also many years here in the US, I have been a tenant and a property owner and a landlord myself. There are advantages and disadvantages in all countries. We had rental property here in the US and they way tenants lived and acted was horrific. Only in a few cases did we get some money back when the apartment was damaged and filthy, in most cases we had to cut our losses and move on. Tenants signed 6-month leases but disappeared often after a few months, I always thought of "Richard Kimble" from the movie "Fugitive". LOL Quite the opposite what I was used living in Germany.

    My impression is: A lot of the laws regarding tenants/landlords are from former times, like 20 or 30 years ago, when 30% or more of the population in the Netherlands (or Germany) could not afford to buy an apartment or a home but they had to rent. Usually, people would then live many, many years in that rented apartment/house, some even decades. It became their home. Moving out would be a big deal. Not only emotionally, but also financially. Many times, apartments are a blank slate, no kitchen, nothing. The tenant would then buy their own kitchen and furniture. There are no built-in closest, people bought their own "schrank". Moving into another apartment could be stressful as many times the kitchen or other furniture would not fit into the new apartment, rooms can be differ a lot. Another problem is availability of rental properties. Sometimes, it's very hard to find a new apartment. There can be up to 100 applicants for one apartment! I remember as well that it was very common to have a clause in a lease agreement: the apartment has to be left in the same good condition as it was when moved in!~ Which means, if it was freshly painted or new wall paper, the tenant is to have it painted or freshly wall papered again when moving out (after a few years). That can be expensive as well. And it might be a reason why the court would allow that the tenant is asking for some money if he is forced to move out.

    I'm just trying to explain that it's such a different mindset or tradition between the countries. The laws were probably based on protecting good people. It angers me that someone like in Lizzardo's case is able to take advantage.

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