PDA

View Full Version : Saturday Jan. 2nd US Air flight and airport...INSANE!



Randi
01-04-2010, 09:47 AM
Well let me begin by saying that the US AIR staff in Aruba are really wonderful people but that is about all I can say with regards to our travel on Saturday home!

To start off, we had a flight Aruba to Philly at 4:30pm and made arrangements to get picked up and taken to the airport at 1 pm to ensure plenty of time to get through all the security check points. We inquired before left to see if the flight was leaving on time and it was, so off we went.

Arrived at the airport at 1:10pm and the airport was A ZOO!!!!!!:eek: People were standing in line outside the building to check in. Luckily, do to DH work travel we are star alliance gold so we could go to the "shorter" line. Waited and got to the front to check in and were then told the flight was leaving two hours late!:mad: Could have stayed at the beach a little longer but none the less, start the process of going through security...........

The line to get through the first check point where you show your passport (before you get to the Aruba Immigration person who takes your Aruba card you filled out upon entering the country) was all the way along the building to the area just past the actual building. As soon as you actually get through the immigration booth, the line started for security. Unbelievably long!! The rest is about the same, finally get to the other side after two hours of security. 4:30pm flight scheduled to now leave at 6:30pm. Boarding starts and everyone has bags inspected and a "pat down" to get onto the plane. We board very quickly as we are told we have ten minutes to board or the flight has to be cancelled. Everyone gets seated and door is shut and we are preparing to leave....finally! Announcement is made that the flight is being cancelled as the flight crew will be over their hours. We are told that buses will be waiting and we are all going to the Holiday Inn. Flight rescheduled for Sunday at 8:45am. Hmm, how did they arrange all this so fast?:confused:

I understand that this happens but the anger by everyone was a) having to go through the security again and b) why couldn't they have realized that with the original flight having a 2.5 hour delay that they would be over they flight allowance and just told everyone earlier. We wouldn't have had to wait in the airport for 6 hours for nothing!! We would had an extra 6 hours in Aruba rather than the airport. This is what common sense is all about.

Well for our family, it only gets better:(, we had a stay over in Philly to continue on our journey home the next morning, which obviously we weren't going to be able to do. That became a challenge for the ticket agents, not sure why and had trouble getting that done. Got through first round of security (much easier first thing in the morning) after being first in line and having to wait for about 30 minutes while they fiddled with our ticket only to pick up our bags to go through US Immigration to find they were ticketed incorrectly. Had to wait there for another 30 minutes while someone brought down new bag tags. We made it to the plane as they were getting ready to board. At this early hour, nothing in the airport was open to get breakfast nor was at the hotel or Dunkin Donuts across the street from the Holiday Inn and they weren't even serving the flight anything considering that people only got to their rooms at 9:30pm and had no time to prepare for bringing anything on the plane. By the time they got to row 12, they ran out of most of the food on the plane!

Made it home finally by 8pm (the flight in Philly was also delayed almost 2 hours) only to find out that one of our bags went missing and they can't find it as of now!!

OMG, this was a nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CHADD, CAN YOU HELP FIND MY BAG????

Andrea J.
01-04-2010, 09:57 AM
none of this is surprising due to the horrific weather, the christmas/new year holiday and the increased security.
such a pain.

Randi
01-04-2010, 10:03 AM
I do understand that holiday travel and weather effects airlines as we travel at this time of year all the time but it is the way it was handled!

US AIR absolutely knew before we got on that plane that the flight crew would be over their hours. As we were embarking one of the flight attendants was heard commenting on why they were having us board as this flight was going to be cancelled!

Once the original flight did not leave Philadelphia until 12:30pm instead of 9:40am, US AIR knew this flight was going to be a "no go"! Tell people then and let them leave. With the fast information in the plane that buses were already at the airport, hotel arrangements made already, and the new flight time, the airline had to have made these arrangements hours ago. No one is a fool that they put that together in the 5 minutes they shut the door of the plane and made the announcement. That, to me, is the issue.

Randi
01-04-2010, 10:13 AM
591

Two boxes exactly the same, packed separately. Just shows you how the baggage handlers abuse our luggage. People wonder why suitcase get destroyed?

Karen Lutzker
01-04-2010, 12:12 PM
Wow Randi! So sorry you and your family and the other travlers had such a nightmare trying to get home. We are traveling to Aruba via Newark on January 12th and returning home on January 19th. I had told the car service we would drop the car off at the airport at 12 noon for the 3:00 or so flight back to NJ. Considering the experiences that you and the other travelers had at the Aruba airport, what time do you suggest for us to drop the car off? Anyone else that traveled to/ from Aruba recently have any suggestions?

rob o
01-04-2010, 12:27 PM
This is what common sense is all about.



THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THIS.

I have learned that what we once referred to as "common sense" is no longer all that common.

Randi....so sorry you had such a rough trip home. I strongly agree that, despite the weather and the holiday rush, most of this was avoidable. You and your fellow passengers were all inconvenienced by corporate greed. They let you go through all that hassle at no expense to them, holding on to the slim hope that they could avoid the expense of your overnight stay. (They did pick up the tab, I hope).

In contrast, not that they are angels, American Airlines postponed (due to snow)our December 20, 4:30PM departure by 6:30 PM the day before, allowing us to enjoy a full extra day in the sun.

Arubalisa
01-04-2010, 12:34 PM
none of this is surprising due to the horrific weather, the christmas/new year holiday and the increased security.
such a pain.
I would have to agree.
Unfortunate? Yes. Surprising no.

Prior to 911 I would have never dreamed of being patted down prior to boarding an airplane.

Do we enjoy standing in the long lines at the airport? No.
Do we understand the reasons why? Yes.

We live in a new world. :(

Andrea J.
01-04-2010, 12:40 PM
hopefully randi will keep us posted on when or if her missing piece of luggage is delivered.
i wish someone familiar with the flight crew hours would post how it is all figured out.
my son and his bride were "usair victims" on 12/24 and if it were not for getting a competent and kind supervisor on the phone i was able to get them on a flight on christmas day boston/charlotte/aruba instead of waiting til the 26th.

my complaint re: the airlines, is that they tend to not keep their agents well informed.......or the agents are just being told to "dummy up?"

then when it is weather related all bets are off and it is nothing but a nightmare.

certainly aa is not much better, but we too have had good luck with communications from them.
the jury is still out on jet blue as we have not flown them often enough to make an opinion.

i am ready to push "the button" buying trip insurance for my upcoming aruba trip.
i would never ever ever consider not having it for an international destination.
unsure if any kind of trip insurance would have helped randi and her family.

Randi
01-04-2010, 12:57 PM
Just got a call and they found our bag and it has cleared canadian customs and I should get a call that they will arrange delivery!!:)

Apparently, if there is an issue with weight they will hold back bags. Again, too bad they don't tell people this!! Our connection was on a small plane and it was full and so was the following plane, many travelling from trips so there must have been a lot of luggage to transport.

The whole Saturday afternoon situation was DISGUSTING!! Yes, they paid for our hotel accomodations and gave us a voucher for dinner (which closed at 10pm and since we were last in line to get our room) at the buffet but we weren't able to get there in time. Breakfast at the HI starts at 7pm but promised coffee would be available in the lobby at our 6 am appointed departure time (no coffee provided) so no one could have breakfast....you get my point!

It was clear that US AIR was keeping us hostage until the last possible second to try and hope that flight could leave to save money. Reality was that plane was never going to leave and they knew that. Be decent about it and upfront. People would have been mad to get to the airport at 1pm to find out the flight was cancelled but at least they could have gone and spent the day doing something instead of sitting in that airport for 6 hours. Even at 3pm tell us the flight is cancelled. Just don't do what they did!

Apparently, the Sunday was better going through security than Saturday. As we all know Saturday is the busier of the two days, especially on this particular Saturday. The security measures, I have no problem with as you do what you have to do to be safe. Extra staff would have been helpful on such a busy travel day.

cindyo
01-04-2010, 05:28 PM
Randi, I am so sorry to hear you got "screwed" at the airport and by US AIr. I am glad to finally hear that the luggage is found and will be delivered. Bummer going to Holiday Inn.
Sounds like there was no excuse for what happened, NONE ! Shame on US AIR.

Randi
01-04-2010, 05:42 PM
To be fair things like this happen but they should be honest and think about the passengers. We did not have to wait all that time for nothing. I think that is more the issue. We all knew that security was going to be difficult on Saturday but to make us go through all of that and then to cancel was disgraceful.

For people who have to sit in the plane that is even worse but at least there is an attempt on the airlines part to take off and leave. It is the stupidity of having us wait around when they knew that the crew would not be able to fly and complete the return trip.

rob o
01-04-2010, 06:31 PM
To be fair things like this happen.

Yes, they do happen.....they happen too often.

This had nothing to do with the increased security measures....it had everything to do with keeping you hostage.

PS - Like your new countdown ticker. Now....consider changing your signature to something like "Had it with US Air"

Randi
01-04-2010, 06:34 PM
RobO, that is funny but my other experiences with US Air have been very positive.

rob o
01-04-2010, 06:43 PM
RobO, that is funny but my other experiences with US Air have been very positive.

You are a kind, forgiving person!;)

If they do it again....no mercy!

DANNYO
01-04-2010, 07:14 PM
:doh:And we thought Avis was bad....WELCOME HOME....:D
As long as you are home safe thats all that matters.

arubaerin
01-04-2010, 07:17 PM
Sorry to hear about your difficulty getting home. There is nothing more frustrating then waiting aroung to have the airline cancel your flight. We flew USair to Aruba in November. I was not impressed with their service at all. I would also like give you a little advice never connect in Philly. It is as far as I am concerned the worst airport to fly through. The flights are consistently late leaving or cancelled. My husband used to travel there alot for work and we found the above was always the case. Now I thought maybe it was just him but I have spoken with several other frequent flyers and they agree. :confused:

Randi
01-04-2010, 07:51 PM
Sorry to hear about your difficulty getting home. There is nothing more frustrating then waiting aroung to have the airline cancel your flight. We flew USair to Aruba in November. I was not impressed with their service at all. I would also like give you a little advice never connect in Philly. It is as far as I am concerned the worst airport to fly through. The flights are consistently late leaving or cancelled. My husband used to travel there alot for work and we found the above was always the case. Now I thought maybe it was just him but I have spoken with several other frequent flyers and they agree. :confused:

We do not live in Toronto which has the majority of flights going to the US, so we need to fly to a US city that then goes to Aruba so we don't have to make 2 stops/3 flights. Philadelphia is our best option as it has daily flights (during high season) to Aruba and we can easily get to that city. The other cities have less flights to Aruba and we don't have a direct flight to Charlotte.

Our next trip is with United (a ticket done on points) so we are flying out of Dulles, and the days just worked out for us as United only flies a few times a week from Washington.

DOORBELL....ITS MY BAG!! It arrived!!!:D:D:D

fry120
01-04-2010, 09:10 PM
Yeah, I'm glad they delivered it to your home. You'd be really honked off if you had to drive back to the airport to pick it up!

Arubalisa
01-04-2010, 10:25 PM
Yeah, I'm glad they delivered it to your home. You'd be really honked off if you had to drive back to the airport to pick it up!
Don't all airlines do that? :confused:

I know Continental and Delta have done it for us in the past when our luggage did not arrive home with us.

Andrea J.
01-04-2010, 10:36 PM
:ya they are required to do it.
yrs ago, we had 2 bags that were not on the carousel once we arrived in boston
we filled out the appropriate forms and waited and waited for the call saying our luggage had appeared.
never got the call.
what we got was.......1 massachusetts state police officer on our doorstep with 2 shredded and empty suitcase.
i might be wrong, but i think we got the maximum payoff.
it was close to $1000 per bag.
we never did have to give an inventory list of articles lost to the airline.:eek:

Chadd
01-04-2010, 11:30 PM
I understand that this happens but the anger by everyone was a) having to go through the security again and b) why couldn't they have realized that with the original flight having a 2.5 hour delay that they would be over they flight allowance and just told everyone earlier. We wouldn't have had to wait in the airport for 6 hours for nothing!! We would had an extra 6 hours in Aruba rather than the airport. This is what common sense is all about.
There are a lot of variables when it comes to "timing out". There are flight time limitations and total day length limitations. It sounds like this is a day length limitation, as I believe they usually have an in flight relief officer on the Aruba turn out of Philly. Something as simple as a little more or less wind from one forecast to the next is enough to scrub a flight, especially on one that is several hours long and you are pushing up against duty time limitations. The solution to that is to have the crews overnight in Aruba, but that raises costs and reduces crew efficiency. The Aruba trips go very senior as you spend almost all of your time in the air, and crews only get paid when the door is closed.

The crew was most likely trying to get back to Philly as well, since that is a day trip and I would expect that at least some of the crew didn't have a bag packed with the expectation of staying the night. The commuters most likely did though.

Glad to hear you got your bag back too. My wife had to go a day without her checked bag last year. Any time flights get changed, the odds of your bag being delayed go up. My guess is the ticketing issue you mentioned, is the source of the problem.

Randi
01-05-2010, 08:15 AM
Chadd,
Totally understand what you are saying but not just the crew has to be considered. The flight crew knew that the flight wasn't going but they boarded us on anyway??:eek:

You still have to figure that with only a short time to allow this flight to leave compared to the late arrival, you must consider the customer not just the employees. As I stated, no one would have been happy being told upon arrival or even at 3 or 4pm that our flight was going to be cancelled but it still would have been a better alternative to what they did!!! For someone like us, who needed to make a connection, this would have allowed us other possibilities for rerouting. Perhaps they could have placed us on another flight/airline? If not, we could have had our connection changed on Saturday properly rather than scramble on Sunday morning. We were at the airport at 6 am to work this out but the ticket desk opened at 6:30am not allowing the three hours to get through security which in our case almost cost us our flight due to our issues.

Things happened and people need to be understanding but on the other end, airlines need to be fair to us... the paying customer!! That is why government ends up stepping in and impossing regulations.

Andrea J.
01-05-2010, 11:35 AM
thanks for the explaination

There are a lot of variables when it comes to "timing out". There are flight time limitations and total day length limitations. It sounds like this is a day length limitation, as I believe they usually have an in flight relief officer on the Aruba turn out of Philly. Something as simple as a little more or less wind from one forecast to the next is enough to scrub a flight, especially on one that is several hours long and you are pushing up against duty time limitations. The solution to that is to have the crews overnight in Aruba, but that raises costs and reduces crew efficiency. The Aruba trips go very senior as you spend almost all of your time in the air, and crews only get paid when the door is closed.

The crew was most likely trying to get back to Philly as well, since that is a day trip and I would expect that at least some of the crew didn't have a bag packed with the expectation of staying the night. The commuters most likely did though.

Glad to hear you got your bag back too. My wife had to go a day without her checked bag last year. Any time flights get changed, the odds of your bag being delayed go up. My guess is the ticketing issue you mentioned, is the source of the problem.

Chadd
01-05-2010, 03:37 PM
Chadd,
Totally understand what you are saying but not just the crew has to be considered. The flight crew knew that the flight wasn't going but they boarded us on anyway??:eek:

You still have to figure that with only a short time to allow this flight to leave compared to the late arrival, you must consider the customer not just the employees. As I stated, no one would have been happy being told upon arrival or even at 3 or 4pm that our flight was going to be cancelled but it still would have been a better alternative to what they did!!! For someone like us, who needed to make a connection, this would have allowed us other possibilities for rerouting. Perhaps they could have placed us on another flight/airline? If not, we could have had our connection changed on Saturday properly rather than scramble on Sunday morning. We were at the airport at 6 am to work this out but the ticket desk opened at 6:30am not allowing the three hours to get through security which in our case almost cost us our flight due to our issues.

Things happened and people need to be understanding but on the other end, airlines need to be fair to us... the paying customer!! That is why government ends up stepping in and impossing regulations.

It's a tough spot for everyone and I would be pissed if I was in your place. I'm not trying to justify any actions, as my thoughts are simply that, my thoughts based on my experience in the industry. I've also witnessed my fair share of mistakes on the part of airline employees, we all make mistakes from time to time.

Unfortunately, the situation is a result of all the cost cutting measures that airlines have had to employ in order to provide the low cost tickets that make it possible for so many people to fly. Every airline is going to try and run the flight right up until the minute that they can not legally take off. The airline lost several thousand dollars on that flight because of the duty time limitation, it's obviously something they try to avoid to the best of their ability. It would have been very difficult for a dispatcher to justify that loss several hours earlier by saying the crew would "probably" time out, especially if it was close.

The timing issue in the morning is most likely due to giving the crew minimum contractual or legal rest before getting back to the airport. Having to shuffle aircraft and crew around after a situation like this can be a nightmare. By the time you finally got back, that aircraft was likely scheduled to work three or four other flights.

More often than not, some passengers will be put on other flights and other airlines if at all possible. I saw that happen last April when our inbound aircraft broke in flight and returned for a crew and aircraft swap. By the time we boarded, something like six hours late, half the plane was empty. There simply wasn't room on the other flights/airlines for everyone. The worst part is we were not able to leave as Aruban passport control and US customs closed and we would have been unable to return to the gate. I was there from 11:30AM until we boarded at 9PM or so, most of that in the gate area.

As for government involvement, the airline followed long standing regulation by covering hotel as it was a "controllable" cancellation or delay. The newly instituted regulations regarding taxi time are going to result in a significant increase in weather cancellations and those don't require any compensation on the part of the airlines. Punishing a system that the government is partly responsible for creating, without doing anything to resolve the situation, borders on criminal behavior. There have obviously been some utterly heinous situations that people have been forced to endure but I don't believe that the new regulations are the right way to address the problems. This is like treating the victim of a stabbing by simply stopping the bleeding but leaving the knife in the body.

Chadd
01-05-2010, 03:42 PM
thanks for the explaination
Most people never get to see all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes, and far too many employees forget what it's like to be on the other side. I just do my best to keep a foot in both worlds and help people understand the mechanics of the situation. Far too often the relationship between employees and passengers has become adversarial. The truth is, we need each other and we might as well try to get along.

Randi
01-06-2010, 10:14 AM
Most people never get to see all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes, and far too many employees forget what it's like to be on the other side. I just do my best to keep a foot in both worlds and help people understand the mechanics of the situation. Far too often the relationship between employees and passengers has become adversarial. The truth is, we need each other and we might as well try to get along.

That is so true! When we were deplaning, once they cancelled the flight, a young woman started mouthing off to one of the US Air employees who works in Aruba (we have dealt with this woman on a few occassions and she is very nice and professional). She told her to not come back tomorrow with that kind of attitude or she wouldn't be allowed on the plane...good for the US Air employee! Although we were all angry, the Aruba staff were excellent and they dealt with the situation, which was beyond their control, in a very professional and organized manner. No one needs to be talked to like. Especially from a woman that looks like she was around 22 years old.

As far as travelling with carry ons, we always travel with two larger carry ons for two reasons. One is that the airlines are always loosing luggage and we want to ensure that we do have some clothing for two days in case of a lost baggage and we always need to overnight some place. We keep our next days worth of clothes and small amount of toiletries so we don't have to start opening up all of our luggage.

Since the Dec. 25th incident, the airlines were asking people to limit their carry ons and they would waive the fees for additional baggages. When we did that they originally wanted to charge us for the two extra bags but when we told them that the fees were to be waived, they didn't charge us. I don't know why they tried to get us to pay at first. The same thing happened to our kids who left on an earlier flight the same day.

princess
01-06-2010, 10:56 AM
This may be a little off topic, but while reading this thread I was reminded of an old story; :)

For all of you out there who've had to deal with an irate
customer, this one is for you. It's a classic! In tribute to those
'special' customers we all love! An award should go to the United Airlines
gate agent in Denver for being smart and funny, while making her point,
when confronted with a passenger who probably deserved to fly as cargo.

A crowded United Airlines flight was canceled.
A single agent was rebooking a long line of inconvenienced travelers.
Suddenly an angry passenger pushed his way to the desk. He slapped his
ticket down on the counter and said,
"I HAVE to be on this flight and it has to be FIRST CLASS."
The agent replied, "I'm sorry sir. I'll be happy to try to help you, but
I've got to help these folks first, and I'm sure we'll be able to work
something out."
The passenger was unimpressed. He asked loudly, so that the
passengers behind him could hear, "DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHO I AM?"
Without hesitating, the agent smiled and grabbed her public address
microphone. "May I have your attention please," she began, her voice heard
clearly throughout the terminal.
"We have a passenger here at Gate 14 WHO DOES NOT KNOW WHO HE IS. If
anyone can help him find his identity, please come to Gate 14."
With the folks behind him in line laughing hysterically, the man
glared at the United agent, gritted his teeth and swore. "F*** You!"
Without flinching, she smiled and said, "I'm sorry, sir, but you'll have to
get in line for that, too.

:p

Andrea J.
01-06-2010, 11:25 AM
love that story!

Randi
01-06-2010, 11:48 AM
That is great but is it true? Sometimes the ticket agent could get in trouble for doing something like that.

Andrea J.
01-06-2010, 11:49 AM
i am pretty certain it is not true, bot boy don't you wish it were?
That is great but is it true? Sometimes the ticket agent could get in trouble for doing something like that.

princess
01-06-2010, 12:43 PM
The story is supposed to be true..

Actually it was used as an example back in the days when I was trained for airline work. In my company we are allowed to answer back if someone is way out of line, or attacks us personally. Language needs to be decent of course.

Same rules within your airline Chadd?

Arubalisa
01-06-2010, 12:54 PM
The story is supposed to be true..

http://www.snopes.com/travel/airline/obnoxious.asp (http://www.snopes.com/travel/airline/obnoxious.asp)

princess
01-06-2010, 01:02 PM
Thanks for the link, Arubalisa, love reading that stuff :)

True or not, we all have something to learn from this!

TERJOE
01-06-2010, 05:51 PM
First, I loved the story. We are coming to Aruba on January 13th for our first trip. I am a little nervous with all that is going on in the airlines right now. I read your story and I am hoping this was a one time incident. Should I expect to be at the airport in line for three to four hours? I am leaving from Philly on US Air. Also, I was told that now we can bring a personal item as well as a carry on. Do you know if that is true? Can't wait to see Aruba!
Terjoe

Randi
01-06-2010, 06:12 PM
In Aruba, when departing, under normal circumstances you need to give yourself lots of time because you are clearing Aruba customs and then you clear US Customs all in the same airport. This is not the case when you are leaving the US.

Jan. 2nd was the busiest travel day of the high season. By Sunday, it was busy but not like on Saturday. Generally speaking, Saturday departures are much busier than any other day of the week.

As far as carry ons, many people had a personal item and a carry on. Your choice, in Aruba they were going through all your carry ons so it depends on how long you want to stand in line. Perhaps someone can tell you how it is leaving Philly to go to Aruba.

TERJOE
01-06-2010, 06:26 PM
Thanks for your reply. Can't wait to see Aruba.

Chadd
01-07-2010, 02:59 AM
Same rules within your airline Chadd?
I do my best to bite my tongue and not fight back. I've been commended by other passengers a number of times for my ability to do so. Inside my head there are a litany of abusive and derogatory things that I want to say, but I've managed to keep them inside so far.

Fortunately people tend to complain less once they're on the airplane. I also do my best to play the messenger, "it's not my rule, it the company or FAA" and I'm a fairly stocky 6-1. I know how to make all of those things work in my favor when appropriate. Besides, being nice to those people just ticks them off even more than if you fire back at them.

Chadd
01-07-2010, 03:04 AM
In Aruba, when departing, under normal circumstances you need to give yourself lots of time because you are clearing Aruba customs and then you clear US Customs all in the same airport. This is not the case when you are leaving the US.

Jan. 2nd was the busiest travel day of the high season. By Sunday, it was busy but not like on Saturday. Generally speaking, Saturday departures are much busier than any other day of the week.

As far as carry ons, many people had a personal item and a carry on. Your choice, in Aruba they were going through all your carry ons so it depends on how long you want to stand in line. Perhaps someone can tell you how it is leaving Philly to go to Aruba.
You can never be too early for your flight. I would rather spend an extra hour grabbing some breakfast or reading a book than rushing and worrying about making my flight. Philly can be completely hit or miss as well. It all depends on how many other flights are leaving at roughly the same time as your flight. It usually isn't too bad for the 7:55 flight but as I said, you can never be too early.

As for the carry on, regulations are one carry on and one personal item. I've seen four carry on bags and a large purse/duffel bag. As long as one fits in the overhead and the other fits under your seat, you're fine.

Randi
01-07-2010, 07:15 AM
Re: Carry ons

What gets me very angry is when people are seated at the back of the plane put their carry on in the front of the plane! I have seen this happen thousands of time and this makes things so difficult for the people who want to put their carry ons above their seat. Don't know why the flight attendants don't "nip that one in the bud"!!

princess
01-07-2010, 09:29 AM
I do my best to bite my tongue and not fight back. I've been commended by other passengers a number of times for my ability to do so. Inside my head there are a litany of abusive and derogatory things that I want to say, but I've managed to keep them inside so far.

Fortunately people tend to complain less once they're on the airplane. I also do my best to play the messenger, "it's not my rule, it the company or FAA" and I'm a fairly stocky 6-1. I know how to make all of those things work in my favor when appropriate. Besides, being nice to those people just ticks them off even more than if you fire back at them.

:) Well said Chadd!

I agree, in most cases it is better not to fight back. Part of the job is to see it as a challenge whenever passengers act up. Gives me lots of pleasure and satisfaction every time my patience helps turning someone's bad mood around, makes my day when angry customers leave with a smile after all ;)

I am ground staff, and you are right, we tend to get more complaints, being the ones that so often are the first bearers of bad news when irregularites occur..

Chadd
01-07-2010, 02:38 PM
Re: Carry ons

What gets me very angry is when people are seated at the back of the plane put their carry on in the front of the plane! I have seen this happen thousands of time and this makes things so difficult for the people who want to put their carry ons above their seat. Don't know why the flight attendants don't "nip that one in the bud"!!
Because most flight attendants look to avoid conflict as much as possible. I agree with you though, it's annoying and selfish. I tend to see an amazing amount of selfish behavior when I'm working though, it seems that too many people leave their courtesy at home when they travel.

Randi
01-07-2010, 03:39 PM
Because most flight attendants look to avoid conflict as much as possible. I agree with you though, it's annoying and selfish. I tend to see an amazing amount of selfish behavior when I'm working though, it seems that too many people leave their courtesy at home when they travel.

Why couldn't they just say nicely, Sir could you please place your carry on at your seat? No real conflict and the person would probably be embarrassed and just move along. The problem then creates trying to find space for the carry on and taking up time, etc.

SanNic44
01-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Randi,

I gave up on US Air (useless Air) years ago. They simply couldn't do the job. A friend of mine had such bad experiences in the US and internationally lately that he's giving up on them, too. I know many people have had bad experiences on American but I have been fortunate to Aruba, around the USA, and elsewhere.

All the airlines have their troubles and as I've stated in other posts, the tickets are too cheap to provide good service. The inevitable race to the bottom in terms of lowest price has ruined the industry (the way it did the railroads 40 years ago). How can you fly a plane from Philadelphia to Aruba (2004 miles) for average $400 a seat? Let's say you have 250 people on board, that's $100,000 dollars round trip (4008) miles. Sounds like a lot of money? Think again. That plane probably costs about $70 million. Lets say it burns 8,000 gallons of fuel (I don't know the actual number) each way, that's 16,000 gallons at say a discounted price of $2 gallon. $32,000 for fuel. Now a crew, maintenance, debt service, etc. Subtract all that from the remaining $68,000 and you'll get a negative number. The proof? The major airlines are effectively operating in a state of bankruptcy, supported only by government, supplies like Boeing and GE, and the dreams of a better future. No way to run a railroad or an airline.

With regard to the placing of carry ons in the front of the plane while seated in the back, I have to admit this is very annoying. On American, I have had great help with this issue. I arrived at my seat to find the overhead bin in the process of being "STACKED" by others. I politely asked the steward if I might place my single carryon up there (I would have put it under the seat but it was just a little too big) and the fellow said absolutely. He promptly told the STACKERS to take their luggage to their own seats and I placed mine there.

And as for courtesy during travel, it hardly exists anymore. Flying is no longer fun, not the least bit classy, and rude as anything can be. For some reason, people have come to think that a plane ticket entitles them to every possible whim. The person next to them, in front of them, whoever, be damned. I no longer tolerate this. I used to avoid "making a fuss." Now, when someone acts like an idiot, I let them know. Zero tolerance for seat kickers, unruly children roaming the cabin, loiterers at the galley, and such.

The more crass behavior we tolerate the more we'll have.

Sad but true.:mad:

44

Andrea J.
01-07-2010, 06:20 PM
san nic your post is "awesome"

Chadd
01-07-2010, 08:31 PM
Randi,

I gave up on US Air (useless Air) years ago. They simply couldn't do the job. A friend of mine had such bad experiences in the US and internationally lately that he's giving up on them, too. I know many people have had bad experiences on American but I have been fortunate to Aruba, around the USA, and elsewhere.

All the airlines have their troubles and as I've stated in other posts, the tickets are too cheap to provide good service. The inevitable race to the bottom in terms of lowest price has ruined the industry (the way it did the railroads 40 years ago). How can you fly a plane from Philadelphia to Aruba (2004 miles) for average $400 a seat? Let's say you have 250 people on board, that's $100,000 dollars round trip (4008) miles. Sounds like a lot of money? Think again. That plane probably costs about $70 million. Lets say it burns 8,000 gallons of fuel (I don't know the actual number) each way, that's 16,000 gallons at say a discounted price of $2 gallon. $32,000 for fuel. Now a crew, maintenance, debt service, etc. Subtract all that from the remaining $68,000 and you'll get a negative number. The proof? The major airlines are effectively operating in a state of bankruptcy, supported only by government, supplies like Boeing and GE, and the dreams of a better future. No way to run a railroad or an airline.

With regard to the placing of carry ons in the front of the plane while seated in the back, I have to admit this is very annoying. On American, I have had great help with this issue. I arrived at my seat to find the overhead bin in the process of being "STACKED" by others. I politely asked the steward if I might place my single carryon up there (I would have put it under the seat but it was just a little too big) and the fellow said absolutely. He promptly told the STACKERS to take their luggage to their own seats and I placed mine there.

And as for courtesy during travel, it hardly exists anymore. Flying is no longer fun, not the least bit classy, and rude as anything can be. For some reason, people have come to think that a plane ticket entitles them to every possible whim. The person next to them, in front of them, whoever, be damned. I no longer tolerate this. I used to avoid "making a fuss." Now, when someone acts like an idiot, I let them know. Zero tolerance for seat kickers, unruly children roaming the cabin, loiterers at the galley, and such.

The more crass behavior we tolerate the more we'll have.

Sad but true.:mad:

44
While I agree with much of your post, I do have to take issue with one point. The government is not subsidizing airlines, there were loans issued after September 11 2001, but all of those loans were repaid, with interest, to the best of my knowledge. Most airlines have added fees, restructured debt, sold off assets or reduced staffing in order to increase liquidity.

Looked up the current fuel numbers to help back up your claim on that too. Airbus A320 such as Jet Blue, US Airways and United fly burn just under 6,000 pounds of Jet-A per hour of flight. A 737 (American, Delta, Continental, etc...) will burn roughly the same amount. A roughly four hour flight brings it up to 24k pounds of fuel burned each way or 48k for the round trip. At roughly 6.8 pounds per gallon you get 3500 gallons each way and the price at the close of market yesterday was $2.22 per gallon. Total cost of fuel each way is just over $7000. Unfortunately those aircraft only seat around 150, so each person is paying a bigger share.

There was a very good show about American Airlines on CNBC a couple years ago that still sees regular play to this day. One segment documented a NY-LA flight and all the associated costs. Anyone with an interest in aviation may find it interesting.

Aruba76
01-08-2010, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by SanNic 44:

And as for courtesy during travel, it hardly exists anymore. Flying is no longer fun, not the least bit classy, and rude as anything can be. For some reason, people have come to think that a plane ticket entitles them to every possible whim. The person next to them, in front of them, whoever, be damned. I no longer tolerate this. I used to avoid "making a fuss." Now, when someone acts like an idiot, I let them know. Zero tolerance for seat kickers, unruly children roaming the cabin, loiterers at the galley, and such

Let's add to the list of annoying passenger behaviors - those sitting behind you who, when getting up, pull on your seat for leverage, waking you from a deep sleep.

cindyo
01-08-2010, 08:11 AM
I only have GLEAMING reports for American Airlines...they have come to our rescue twice, on very big things for us...Rob's accident they moved our flight, fixed the frequent flyer issues associated with it, and changed our flight without any requests during the snow storm in Boston, again on their own !!!!
AMERICAN AIRLINES THANK YOU...I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE !!!!
I have not used USAir, but from what I read, I will stay away.
Thank you all for your info out there and nightmare stories, I find all of this very interesting, and a good point of reference.
I figured some good "press" for a airlines is a good thing on this thread.

Randi
01-08-2010, 08:39 AM
I have to say that although I was/am not happy with US AIR, honestly, it could have happened on any airline...they are all really the same when it comes to cost cutting/saving measures.
As a regular of Air Canada, I can tell you that some of my dealings with policy and customer service, US Air can be better than our national airline. A lot also has to do with who you speak to and how you speak to them.;)

SanNic 44, how did you ask people to remove their stuff? How did the flight attendant or you, for that matter know that the bags above your seat didn't belong to someone who was seated around you? I would love to do this but DH would never go for that! We get to board early (which helps in getting space for carry on) so I get to see all the people who walk on, drop their bags in the front and continue on to the back of the plane. Perhaps the flight attendants could monitor this more carefully as people from the back of the plane can easily be spotted stopping and placing their luggage in the front!

purpleangel
01-08-2010, 09:52 AM
As with most things in life, it all depends on one's personal experiences. I have flown US Scare and/or United every time I go to Aruba and have not had any issues at all.

SanNic44
01-09-2010, 07:27 AM
Chadd,

Thank you for the correct data on the fuel burn and seating numbers.

Still, various governments are subsidizing air travel by paying to build/expand/support airports. This is not exclusive to air travel. The government takes money from gasoline taxes and gives it to mass transit as well. My point is not to argue public policy, simply to illustrate how it is too cheap to fly.

I love to fly small aircraft, but we pilots (and those who own airplanes) are not paying the true cost of the activity. This is also passed on to the public in various hidden ways and I do not support that one bit.

Personally, I do not want to pay more. However, I recognize that you have to pay to play. And if we want safe, on-time, well-staffed, and reliable air transport, the price must increase. If not, it will be a lurch from one crisis to another.

Consider that most major airports are always at full capacity or beyond. Why? After all these years there is plenty of data available to accurately determine how many flights can takeoff/land in a given time period. That's a physical limit. Hence, why schedule more? This is moronic. If JFK can only handle 200 flights per hour (or whatever the actual limit is) that's the end of it. More than that only pushes the schedule into chaos. And if that means the gate slots must be auctioned off, so be it. You want to fly from a given airport at a given time, well, the price will be appropriate.

Instead we have attempts to please everybody (each airline bellyaches, the passengers whine, the politicians dip their nose into the mess) and this results in zero progress. Let's all stop lying to each other such as: Scheduling a zillion flights for the same hour... which is like... Flexing our flabby bellies in front of the mirror and thinking we look like Brad Pitt.

Then again, there are so many cooks in this kitchen the meal is sure to be garbage.

44

PS: Always do your checklist.:)

Chadd
01-09-2010, 12:18 PM
Every major airport should be slotted down to a number that can supported in all but the worst IFR conditions. At the very least a 10% reduction in slots across the board from the current numbers at JFK and LGA would make a noticeable difference. Philly is going to be an utter nightmare when the E terminal expansion is completed and Southwest doubles their number of flights.