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lizzardo
11-19-2013, 10:26 AM
We rented our house out on a yearly basis that was renewable every year if both parties agree. We told our tenant who had a renewable yearly lease Sept 2012 we were not renewing the lease ending in Nov 2012. It's been a year that he's been in our house and now the court has over-rided the housing commission who said we could get our house back to live in. They appealed and can now stay in the house. We are waiting for more details but it's simple - even if you own a house in Aruba, you can not do what you want with it. Really puts a very sour taste in our mouths about the country we used to love. We had plans to move back, now I don't know.

Arubalisa
11-19-2013, 10:46 AM
We rented our house out on a yearly basis that was renewable every year if both parties agree. We told our tenant who had a renewable yearly lease Sept 2012 we were not renewing the lease ending in Nov 2012. It's been a year that he's been in our house and now the court has over-rided the housing commission who said we could get our house back to live in. They appealed and can now stay in the house. We are waiting for more details but it's simple - even if you own a house in Aruba, you can not do what you want with it. Really puts a very sour taste in our mouths about the country we used to love. We had plans to move back, now I don't know.Sounds like squatter's rights? :eek: :eek: :doh:

Are they at least paying rent? I hope so.

Just another reason NOT to invest in Aruba. :( :( :doh:

Jacki
11-19-2013, 10:52 AM
We rented our house out on a yearly basis that was renewable every year if both parties agree. We told our tenant who had a renewable yearly lease Sept 2012 we were not renewing the lease ending in Nov 2012. It's been a year that he's been in our house and now the court has over-rided the housing commission who said we could get our house back to live in. They appealed and can now stay in the house. We are waiting for more details but it's simple - even if you own a house in Aruba, you can not do what you want with it. Really puts a very sour taste in our mouths about the country we used to love. We had plans to move back, now I don't know.

Wow! Good luck - I hope everything works out the way it should!

lizzardo
11-19-2013, 11:17 AM
We are getting rent, but it was low because we had a clause in our lease (provided by a real estate agent) said the house was for sale and they had 90 days to move. But no one wants to talk about all the violations this guy has done. He wouldn't allow people in the house to be shown, modified the house so it was 2 units and has another person living on the other side ( and he's prob. getting rent). NOPE Aruba committee and law doesn't care. So this guy has been living in the house for an extra year and now more We HAVE TO PAY HIM MONEY. We have no idea if we can sell the house and if the guy has to move or 'would come with the house'. I was supposed to spread my mom's ashes in a special tree in the back yard because she loved Aruba so. My dad still does. Now I can't say that I would move back. I was wanting to and restart my kitten rescue because that was a great time in my life. But now I don't think I will. Not worth it. If anyone knows of any resources or people who can help (but it's doubtful) - let me know. Thanks for the support Lisa!

CK1
11-19-2013, 09:05 PM
We are getting rent, but it was low because we had a clause in our lease (provided by a real estate agent) said the house was for sale and they had 90 days to move. But no one wants to talk about all the violations this guy has done. He wouldn't allow people in the house to be shown, modified the house so it was 2 units and has another person living on the other side ( and he's prob. getting rent). NOPE Aruba committee and law doesn't care. So this guy has been living in the house for an extra year and now more We HAVE TO PAY HIM MONEY. We have no idea if we can sell the house and if the guy has to move or 'would come with the house'. I was supposed to spread my mom's ashes in a special tree in the back yard because she loved Aruba so. My dad still does. Now I can't say that I would move back. I was wanting to and restart my kitten rescue because that was a great time in my life. But now I don't think I will. Not worth it. If anyone knows of any resources or people who can help (but it's doubtful) - let me know. Thanks for the support Lisa!

That is shocking and unbelievable! So sorry about all the trouble you have to go through!

I don't know anything about the law regarding Aruba's rental market but I'm thinking if a very qualified Aruban lawyer would be able to help? Are there still possibilities to appeal? I wished you could really find someone in Aruba who knows the ins and outs in a situation like that. Does that guy have any "connections"?

It's unbelievable that he could already stay another year at a low cost rent despite your contract. Does your contract state that you ONLY rent to him and no further tenants are allowed without your consent? Can it be proven that he rents the other part of the house out? Can you increase the rent a LOT? How is it even possible that you have to give him money? (I'm just thinking out loud). All that is just not right!

I so wish for you that something can be done! That must be so frustrating! Hopefully, you will find someone who has a solution to all of this. BEST of LUCK!

lizzardo
11-20-2013, 02:56 PM
********** IF ANYONE CAN HELP US - CONTACT AN ARUBAN OFFICAL OR SOMEONE WITH POWER - PLEASE HELP US ************************

We do have a good Aruban lawyer. We won in the housing committee and he appealed it in the Aruba court system and won. We know we have to pay HIS lawyer fees. We understand we could appeal in Curacao then holland. We have a no sublet clause in our contract. We can not prove a sublet - he can say it's a guest. Right after the case and before the judge made his decision this is what they wrote to get him out:

> > As per the judges’ suggestion my client is willing to settle this matter against a monetary compensation. To that end my client is willing – under reservation of all rights and remedies – to settle this matter under the following terms and conditions:
> >
> > - Your clients will pay my client a compensation of US$45,000;
> > - Your clients will refund my client the deposit;
> > - My client will vacate the house as per April 30, 2014;
> > - My client will continue to pay the rent until April 30, 2014.

That is extortion or black mail?

Shnyda
11-20-2013, 05:27 PM
Wow --- that's pretty much the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I wish I could help.

purpleangel
11-20-2013, 05:39 PM
I'm so sorry you are going through this. What a nightmare! :(

Arubalisa
11-20-2013, 07:19 PM
WOW, extortion and black mail are putting it nicely. I too am sorry that you have to go through this.

Please keep us posted. There is a lesson to be learned here for others.

There are a lot of things that I could say, but suffice to say after all you have done for the island in caring for those who cannot care for themselves and this in turn is how you are treated? :mad: :censored: :censored: :censored:

CK1
11-20-2013, 08:15 PM
I have read about a case where the tenant "demanded" quite a lot of money in order to move out of a rented house so that the owner could sell it (a case in
Germany).

However, the landlord does not have to accept it.

There are some sleazy tenants and their lawyers who "give it a try".

aquaman
11-20-2013, 09:43 PM
********** IF ANYONE CAN HELP US - CONTACT AN ARUBAN OFFICAL OR SOMEONE WITH POWER - PLEASE HELP US ************************

We do have a good Aruban lawyer. We won in the housing committee and he appealed it in the Aruba court system and won. We know we have to pay HIS lawyer fees. We understand we could appeal in Curacao then holland. We have a no sublet clause in our contract. We can not prove a sublet - he can say it's a guest. Right after the case and before the judge made his decision this is what they wrote to get him out:

> > As per the judges’ suggestion my client is willing to settle this matter against a monetary compensation. To that end my client is willing – under reservation of all rights and remedies – to settle this matter under the following terms and conditions:
> >
> > - Your clients will pay my client a compensation of US$45,000;
> > - Your clients will refund my client the deposit;
> > - My client will vacate the house as per April 30, 2014;
> > - My client will continue to pay the rent until April 30, 2014.

That is extortion or black mail. My answer is :censored:



Hi Liz

So sorry to hear that you and Mick have encountered this situation. As a fellow property owner we have checked into this and when renting we always have a concern about Dutch Law and how it is slanted to afford maximum rights to the tenant. In checking out your situation, I found out 2 things...1. That after the initial term period is pased, the tenant agreement becomes an indefinite rental contract and the terms favor the tenant. 2......While this is the case, a Dutch judiciary has the power to cancel that contract.

I am not sure you can achieve this in Aruba or not. There was a TV documentary that aired in North America and dealt with this whole issue in The Netherlands. From what I remember of that doc, there were steps that owners/landlords could take, such as disconnecting utilities and so on. When health and safety became issues, then the authorities would step in. Seems like a crazy system, but that is the way the Dutch set it up. Not sure why.

John

CK1
11-20-2013, 10:18 PM
Jun 06, 2006


Rental market is strongly pro-tenant


Thanks to VanEps Kunneman VanDoorne (http://www.promes-vandoorne.com/)

Rents: Can landlord and tenant freely agree rents in Aruba?

In general, parties may freely determine the rent in a tenancy agreement. Also the increase of such rent can be freely determined.
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/template/assets/img/Aruba-islands-caribbean.jpgHowever, certain classes of real estate are subject to mandatory rules of law (Ordinance On The Rent Assessment Advisory Committee (1991), known as the “Ordinance”) as regards the determination of the applicable rent. These mandatory rules apply to houses with a building value (including the ground value) of less than AWG 100,000 (approx. US$55,000), which include residential housing, shops, bars, restaurants, hotels and offices, with the exception of buildings located in hotels, airports and seaports. According to the mandatory rules of law, the Rent Assessment Advisory Committee - known as “the Committee” - is charged with the determination of the rent and with any requests to increase such rent. The Committee will base the rent on the percentage of the buildings costs.
In practice, despite these mandatory rules of law most landlords do not turn to the Committee to determine the rent. They often enter into agreements with tenants and determine the rent with mutual consent.


Security Deposits

Neither the Ordinance nor the Civil Code of Aruba contain provisions regarding security deposits or rental deposits (In Aruba there is no distinction between security or rental deposits).


What rights do landlords and tenants have in Aruba, especially as to duration of contract, and eviction?

There is a distinction between contracts for indefinite periods of time and contracts for a specified period of time.


Contracts for indefinite periods of time

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/template/assets/img/Aruba-beachfront-homes.jpgThe landlord needs first to receive permission from the Committee to end an indefinite period tenancy. The tenant should observe the agreed term or notice or, if parties did not agree to a term of notice, a reasonable term of notice.



Contracts for specified periods of time

The landlord cannot terminate the tenancy agreement even after the date of expiry without permission from the Committee, where the tenant wishes to extend. However, the tenant can terminate the tenancy agreement after expiration of the term.

Premature termination of the tenancy agreement is in principle only allowed by mutual consent between the landlord and the tenant.
If a written tenancy agreement has expired, but the tenant is still actually living in the rented house, this will be seen as a renewed tenancy agreement. The renewed tenancy agreement will be a tenancy agreement for an indefinite period of time.

The landlord can request the Committee permission to terminate the tenancy agreement. The Committee will give permission on the following grounds:




The tenant does not pay the rent in time, or does not use the house as a good administrator;

Under special circumstances the Committee may accept other grounds, if the landlord has a legitimate interest in the termination of the tenancy agreement.


Both landlord and tenant can also request the Court of First Instance of Aruba to dissolve the tenancy agreement because of default of the other party or exceptional circumstances.

After expiration of the tenancy agreement (due to termination or dissolution), the landlord can initiate eviction proceedings before the Court of First Instance of Aruba in case the tenant is not willing to surrender the premises. In principle, the landlord should first give notice to the tenant before initiating such eviction proceedings.

If the landlord wishes to sell the house, the tenancy agreement will not be terminated, except in case this has been agreed upon beforehand between landlord and tenant.



How effective is the Aruban legal system?

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/template/assets/img/Aruba-realestate-caribbean.jpgIn case a tenant does not pay the rent, the landlord can request dissolution of the tenancy agreement by court proceedings. Furthermore, the landlord can start legal proceedings to collect the rent.

Also the landlord can request eviction of the tenant. He may start summary proceedings, which will take approximately 2 to 6 weeks, to obtain an eviction judgment. However, to dissolve a tenancy agreement the landlord should initiate proceedings on the merits, which may last approximately one year.



Legislation

Ordinance of the Rent Assessment Advisory Committee of 1991 Civil Code of Aruba.


Brief History: Recent changes in Aruban landlord and tenant law

The Netherlands Antilles are an autonomous civil law territory of the Kingdom of the Netherlands located in the Caribbean, and consist of two island groups, the southern group of Curaçao and Bonaire (north of Venezuela), and the northern group of Sint Maarten, Saba and Sint Eustatius (east of Puerto Rico). Aruba used to an island of the Netherlands Antilles, however, in 1986, after a referendum, the island of Aruba was constitutionally separated from the Netherlands Antilles, but it still remains part of the Netherlands.Aruba introduced the Civil Code of Aruba, which is in many aspects, similar to Civil Code of the Netherlands Antilles. In Aruba there has not been any radical intrinsic de-regulation or re-regulation in the past few decades in the rent legislation.

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Caribbean/aruba/Landlord-and-Tenant

Randi
11-21-2013, 12:07 PM
I would go to the newspapers and TV in Aruba. Nothing better than negative publicity especially when you are dealing with an island that relies so heavily on Tourism. Go the newspapers that cater to the tourists. Don't you always notice that the free newspapers that are in the lobby usually don't have anything overtly negative about Aruba as compared to the newspaper the local people read?

I would bet with enough negative publicity the pressure would be on the Aruba Judicial/government to get your house back. Obviously, playing on the fact that you had run the successful kitten rescue program in Aruba and want to return to island.....

Hmm...here's another angle: May be contact some US news outlets for coverage. They would want comments from Aruba, just what Aruba will not want more negative publicity from the US!!!

cyclone promotions
11-21-2013, 01:35 PM
I would go to the newspapers and TV in Aruba. Nothing better than negative publicity especially when you are dealing with an island that relies so heavily on Tourism. Go the newspapers that cater to the tourists. Don't you always notice that the free newspapers that are in the lobby usually don't have anything overtly negative about Aruba as compared to the newspaper the local people read?

I would bet with enough negative publicity the pressure would be on the Aruba Judicial/government to get your house back. Obviously, playing on the fact that you had run the successful kitten rescue program in Aruba and want to return to island.....

Hmm...here's another angle: May be contact some US news outlets for coverage. They would want comments from Aruba, just what Aruba will not want more negative publicity from the US!!!


Hey Randi this has nothing to do with Tourism

do you read read there is rules to follow when you rent a house here on the island do you think it a free for all
there is steps that will need to fallow.

CK1
11-21-2013, 01:50 PM
Hey Randi this has nothing to do with Tourism

do you read read there is rules to follow when you rent a house here on the island do you think it a free for all
there is steps that will need to fallow.

Hi Cyclone promotions,

I posted that article to show that it is actually "legal" that this guy can ask $45,000 so that he would move out sooner. I personally find this outrages!

I believe that law was based to protect the "weaker and poorer" part which would be the tenant and give the landlord which is seen as the stronger part, less right.

However, in this case, this tenant had the chance to move into an expensive, luxury house at a low rent, as it was only temporarily, for one year. This tenant took advantage in any possibly way.

IMO, it's disgusting! He is like a maggot, a parasite! I hope that judge in charge will see that. And will do the right thing!

cyclone promotions
11-21-2013, 02:14 PM
Hi Cyclone promotions,

I posted that article to show that it is actually "legal" that this guy can ask $45,000 so that he would move out sooner. I personally find this outrages!

I believe that law was based to protect the "weaker and poorer" part which would be the tenant and give the landlord which is seen as the stronger part, less right.

However, in this case, this tenant had the chance to move into an expensive, luxury house at a low rent, as it was only temporarily, for one year. This tenant took advantage in any possibly way.

IMO, it's disgusting! He is like a maggot, a parasite! I hope that judge in charge will see that. And will do the right thing!


I do understand what are you explaining to me.

That the way the houses here on the island is so expensive to even rent because that is due this kind of problems that someone can run into.

I find it crazy too that the this dude is asking for 45000 but if they miss a month of rent or two then the landlord can start the procedure. like cut utility's if it is on there landlord name and so on

CK1
11-21-2013, 03:03 PM
I do understand what are you explaining to me.

That the way the houses here on the island is so expensive to even rent because that is due this kind of problems that someone can run into.

I find it crazy too that the this dude is asking for 45000 but if they miss a month of rent or two then the landlord can start the procedure. like cut utility's if it is on there landlord name and so on

Thanks.

I think what is the most upsetting: The landlord is a nice person, honest, decent and fair.

With the help of an Aruban Real Estate person, the landlord makes a lease agreement with the tenant for one year.

But when the year is over, the tenant refuses to move out and is playing all kind of tricks, taking advantage of the loopholes in the law.

Things, which the landlord (and most people who don't know the law) would NOT image in their wildest dreams could happen!

It is so unfair!

AhhAruba
11-21-2013, 03:32 PM
Wow. How shocking that something like that could happen to you. I hope you find support that can help you get this resolved in your favor quickly. It makes me sick that people are so selfish they would knowingly do something like that.

qlaval
11-21-2013, 03:37 PM
I would bet that this renter knew exactly from the start that he would try to extort the landlord... :mad:
It's a typical well planned sting operation.
Sadly you can bet that this renter will never miss a rental payment...
Why? Because it's planned from the start and more his lawyer is helping him to take advantage of the system...

What's your lawyer saying? Does he see a short term solution?
If I were you I would rather pay $45k in legal fee than giving it to that thief...
Let's just hope that he's not adding to the outrage by messing up the house... :doh:

Gosh do I ate it when I see criminals taking advantage of good people... :(
Because even if there's no gun it's a robbery you're facing...

Wish you a lot of courage and a quick solution.

cindyo
11-21-2013, 06:03 PM
I read and re-read this whole string...I am sick thinking about it Lizzardo.

lizzardo
11-22-2013, 01:24 PM
Thanks everyone. I think you are right, this guy had it all figured out before he moved in. Our real estate agent who was supposed to screen tenants should have never said that this guy was reputable. All my lawyer keeps on saying is "if you went to a lawyer first, they would have said not to rent to a lawyer (law firm) and that the contract was poor". We keep on saying "now we know it but what can we do now" - Here is what he wrote us as far as an appeal.. I don't even understand it.

The law does not provide for the right to appeal the decision of the court of first instance of Aruba in matters of the Lease Commission However, case law makes certain limited exemptions. You would be able to pursue an appeal based on these limited exceptions. However, the basis of the appeals is very narrow. We would be able to argue that the judge went beyond the scope of the law by affording protection of the lessee by exceeding the protection the law intended to give the lessee. In essence one could argue that the judgment effectively infringe upon your property right in a way that was not contemplated by the legislation. You would understand that this basis of the appeal is very narrow. It is not certain that the court of appeals would agree to this argument.

If anyone knows anyone who can help us - please let us know. I think he is extorting us to move out. I don't know what anyone in Aruba can do for us. The lawyer does not have a great reputation on the island. Which we found out later. When we say his name everyone seems to moan.

I have been crying since this whole thing was ruled on. For an American, this makes no sense. I lived full time in Aruba and there are some strange ways people view things sometimes - but this situation seemed to us to be straightforward. I guess I was the fool.

qlaval
11-22-2013, 02:28 PM
Hi,

Poor you, being taken hostage in your own house.... :mad:

It looks like your lawyer is saying that an appeal is possible but not very likely to succeed...

I first thought you had rent to an individual who had hire a lawyer to help him extort you better but no it's even worst it's the crooked lawyer himself you've rented to.... :doh:

My guessing that he had it all figured out even before moving in is sadly not a guess anymore... he simply was waiting for a luxurious house to be offered on the rental market... He got you good and he knows it...

A real nightmare, I don't even know you personally and still it infuriates me to see such an injustice, I sure feel your pain...

Don't know much to say except that I'm sorry for all you have to live true, be brave Liz

Randi
11-22-2013, 03:02 PM
Thanks everyone. I think you are right, this guy had it all figured out before he moved in. Our real estate agent who was supposed to screen tenants should have never said that this guy was reputable. All my lawyer keeps on saying is "if you went to a lawyer first, they would have said not to rent to a lawyer (law firm) and that the contract was poor". We keep on saying "now we know it but what can we do now" - Here is what he wrote us as far as an appeal.. I don't even understand it.

The law does not provide for the right to appeal the decision of the court of first instance of Aruba in matters of the Lease Commission However, case law makes certain limited exemptions. You would be able to pursue an appeal based on these limited exceptions. However, the basis of the appeals is very narrow. We would be able to argue that the judge went beyond the scope of the law by affording protection of the lessee by exceeding the protection the law intended to give the lessee. In essence one could argue that the judgment effectively infringe upon your property right in a way that was not contemplated by the legislation. You would understand that this basis of the appeal is very narrow. It is not certain that the court of appeals would agree to this argument.

If anyone knows anyone who can help us - please let us know. I think he is extorting us to move out. I don't know what anyone in Aruba can do for us. The lawyer does not have a great reputation on the island. Which we found out later. When we say his name everyone seems to moan.

I have been crying since this whole thing was ruled on. For an American, this makes no sense. I lived full time in Aruba and there are some strange ways people view things sometimes - but this situation seemed to us to be straightforward. I guess I was the fool.

The guy from Cyclone Promotions did not understand what I was trying to say to you but I will try again. The power of the media is always strong. While something is technically "legal" but morally wrong the pressure that media puts on when doing a story to reveal things that appear to be ridiculous sometimes helps. With enough media coverage in Aruba and possibly the US, the appropriate steps to remove this tenant may happen. It will be very embarrassing to have this situation revealed. When desperate do desperate things!!

CK1
11-22-2013, 03:15 PM
A lot went wrong. But there is still hope, Lizzardo!

The way I understand what your lawyer is saying: there is a slight chance to appeal the ruling on that previous appeal as that judge should not have ruled in favor of the tenant!

And this makes sense! Why should a "poor" tenant be allowed to live in a luxury house?

You wrote: "The lawyer does not have a great reputation on the island." Are you talking about the tenant who is a lawyer? Or is it the lawyer you hired to help you solve this case?

It's a very frustrating situation, especially as the law in Aruba is different and sometimes hard to understand. But I felt the same when we had rented out here in the US, the tenants did not pay their rent, moved out earlier, caused damage, trashed the place and we were almost never able to get the money they owed us. The law in the US is very weak in that regard and much tougher in Germany, for instance.

I will keep thinking of you and hope everything works out well. I feel as well that it's a huge injustice what is going on in your case. I hope very much that the judge who will rule on your case will rule in your favor. Please don't give up! There is still hope.

yefim8
11-22-2013, 06:51 PM
not sure it is solution but after i spoke to my friend/attorney he said:try both or at least one of you become permanent resident in Aruba[apply for it asap} and after granted appeal to King on Netherlands or to higher court in main land as being unable to live in your house as Permanent Resident of Aruba .[my friend attorney in New York but he said it is should work]

lizzardo
11-23-2013, 10:52 AM
It's our tenant who has a bad reputation. We have 5 years of residency. You need to have an address of where you live. How can we do that? The past years have been so stressful - mom dying, dad in a locked ward with dementia and now this, it's taking a toll in my marriage.

CK1
11-23-2013, 01:54 PM
That it is the tenant with the bad reputation - that is positive for you.
That you have a good lawyer and friends who are trying to help - that is positive for you.
That you have already five years of residence - that is positive for your case.

Going through a difficult time in your life - I think we all can relate to it in one way or another. That it takes a toll on your marriage or your health - It's NOT WORTH IT!

You have a chance to win this case. Have faith and do the best on your part what can be done.

No matter of the outcome, there is a reason why things are happening. Sometimes, we don't understand those reasons right away. What is meant to be, will be. Have faith. Be strong. Relax and breath.

Good Luck and all the Best to you!

yefim8
11-23-2013, 06:32 PM
same from us:good luck and best wishes.let leave all bad in 2013 and move on to 2014 with solution to this nightmare.

Pegmeister
11-23-2013, 06:53 PM
You must be tremendously frustrated. I would be spitting nails!! It really is just wrong I hope with time you are able to get things rectified. I wish I had answers. All I can do is send some prayers out. I really hope it works out for you.

lizzardo
11-24-2013, 10:32 AM
He's had 1 year and will be on his 2nd end of Nov. Looking for someone to translate ruling from dutch to english.

lizzardo
11-24-2013, 10:53 AM
I think our big problem is we let him renew his lease for 1 year. I think that somehow plays into Aruban Law. Looking for someone who can translate ruling for us. The internet translators are not good.

CK1
11-24-2013, 02:17 PM
As the ruling will include important legal terms, I would think it would be best if someone translates it who actually works in the legal field. Could your Aruban lawyer or someone in his office translate it for you? Or that he can suggest a professional interpreter? IMO, it's an important document and the translation should be as accurate as possible.

Hope you find someone who is dependable and qualified.

lizzardo
11-27-2013, 10:02 AM
having someone look things over. Hopefully will hear today. I just can not believe this nightmare.

CK1
11-27-2013, 12:53 PM
Hopefully, everything turns out well at the end!

Jacki
11-27-2013, 01:04 PM
Wishing you tons of good vibes & luck!!

aruba here I come
11-27-2013, 05:04 PM
Hoping everything works out very soon for you!! Makes me sick reading this!!!

yefim8
11-27-2013, 10:01 PM
Good luck from us as well

lizzardo
12-11-2013, 01:07 PM
I thought i'd give you all an update. Thanks to aquaman and K - They referred me to someone in the real estate association. Never even knew Aruba had one. He read the transcripts and said that the lawyer who had been recommended was not as aggressive as he should have been. Esp. since the other lawyer was well known and had a lot of real estate and other connections.

I appreciate what this manager/Realtor said and the time he took to talk with us.
We have a new lawyer who has a game plan. But it still means, lawyers fees and
a lot of time. I do not see these thieves just taking a ruling from the one committee -
they will appeal because they have a sweet house, across the street from one of the
best beaches and dirt cheap rent. It was lower because there was a clause that said
he had to move 90 days if the house was sold. Now he argues in court "how can I get
such a place for this kind of rent" - Answer is nowhere. Again real estate agents
did not do very well by me when talking about what I should ask for rent.

So I am still in shock and feel like I have been dealing with non-logical things so much
lately that I wonder if there is any sanity or justice in this world . Or it's all about the $$

Thank you every one for the support - I really needed and still need it. Was hoping that I would be able to come down for my favorite time of the year Christmas and New Years - but that's not the case. Just hoping that 2014 will bring me a quick series of 'wins' - I'm telling Karma it's about time that my luck changes for the better!!!

CK1
12-12-2013, 03:04 AM
Glad you got some help and some advice which lead you to the real estate association. And ultimately to a new and better lawyer. Knowledge is everything. Each little detail counts. It can make or break a case. Those new updates sound positive.

In regards of any real estate agent: they make suggestions (many times having their own interested/commission in mind). However, the owner is in charge and can agree or disagree what the real estate agent suggests. Again, knowledge is everything. I would never completely trust any real estate agent. Nowhere in the world. There are too many scumbags. I just read where many tourists who invested in the Egyptian real estate market got cheated big time.

I'll continue thinking about you and hope, everything works out well for you at the end. That new lawyer sounds good.

cindyo
12-12-2013, 08:26 AM
Still sick about your situation... Wishing you a better outcome this time around, Cindy

Jacki
12-12-2013, 11:28 AM
Hoping it gets so much better with a more aggressive lawyer!

Lighthouse
12-16-2013, 09:52 PM
They appealed and can now stay in the house. We are waiting for more details but it's simple - even if you own a house in Aruba, you can not do what you want with it. .I wouldn't even consider buying property in another country unless I was in a financial position to lose it. Of course they will favor the rights of their own citizens.

vincep
12-24-2013, 01:36 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I'll make sure there is no renewal option in any rental contract I make out.

lizzardo
12-27-2013, 12:11 PM
Our clause said renewable yearly upon agreement of both parties. We sent him a letter saying we were moving
back and would not be renewing our rent - sent in Sept - end date of contact Nov 30.
I'm not sure sure anything can protect the owners - they are all tenant rights.
I think even if you went to an attorney - you'd get a different answer from all of them.

But let me just say I couldn't have made it this far without all your support and making me feel that my anger was justified.

Thank you all for your advise, love and humor. Here is our update - we got
introduced to a very nice man who said he would help us. Still kinda waiting
to see what he is going to do. He recommended a lawyer who was a little
pricier than our other one. We think she'll do a better job for us.

We have written to the man who said he could help asking him
if he understands our position.

Our case was "won" in the last battle by the tenant (we had won the housing committee)
- even tho we said we wanted to move back - they won
because they always paid their rent. They did not care about the violations
of the contract and said even tho the contract said the house was for sale when
he rented it and he had to move out w/i 90 days - we had a low rent. He claims
he can't get a rental like ours - Damn straight you can't.

So we will see. Not feeling the love these days. Hopefully once new years is over
they might get back to work.

Love you all! Wishing you all the best for the new year. You guys in Aruba - light
a big cherry bomb outside our house!!! LOL! I know Krampus will be visiting this
guy. Just so sad to see that there are people out there so uncaring and love causing
problems. Enough is enough!!!

vincep
12-27-2013, 12:27 PM
So as long as they pay the rent, they can stay as long as they want?

I took out any option to renew or extension/month to month; past the terms of the rental agreement.

lizzardo
12-28-2013, 10:16 AM
They are not Aruban - this guy is dutch and has a bad reputation.

Good thing to do Vincep. But still would question it in Aruba -
laws are funky.

We trusted the lease from the real estate agent -
who claims she's a lawyer. But in the US that's what
you are paying the commission for.

We thought that renewable option made it stone hard that if any party does not want to renew - that was the end of the lease.

We lived in Aruba and found out a lot about how Aruba works. But we were suckers for this.

Thanks for all the support - it means a lot to me. Also helps me feel that I am not crazy!!

Pegmeister
12-28-2013, 10:31 AM
Just curious; would you ever consider going to Aruba and discussing this with the individual face to face? Every time I read your posts I get aggravated for you. I just can't imagine the rationalization that allows him to stay.

aquaman
12-28-2013, 12:44 PM
Liz, I think it is only fair to point out that this issue is not of Aruban making. The squatter situation is deeply entrenched in Dutch law and goes back many many years. Since Aruba is governed under Dutch law, this situation exists. The individual with whom I put you in contact has been ill and, like business people I know here, he is off the island until Jan 6. Just the way it is here at Xmas/New Year.

I willspeak to to the individuals with whom you have contact and relay afghani your frustration. I cannot promise anything before Jan 6

i do go by your place every couple of days. At least it is still there.

J

mpiaser
01-05-2014, 07:55 PM
I have had lots of bad experiences renting property in Cleveland, but this story takes the cake. How can governments let people steal from landlords like this.

yefim8
01-05-2014, 11:12 PM
New York could easy beat Cleveland in Aruba in this respect. Unfortunately.

lizzardo
01-08-2014, 11:52 AM
My husband went there and talked to this 'man' face to face - the November he was supposed to move out. We had no idea he refused to move out and he was down to access the condition of the house. The guy is a jerk and is a scam artist. No use trying to 'talk to him in person' again.

lizzardo
01-08-2014, 11:54 AM
Thanks Aquaman! You have been great to us. I agree with you about the people we are working with. They are Aruban not Dutch.

lizzardo
01-16-2014, 12:16 PM
Don't know if I posted this but my tenants FILED for the appeal 2 weeks after the due date to file AND the judge the case anyway. Also he made a bad ruling. Would cost lots and lots of money to appeal

How much more of this can I take? I tried to write to the governor of Aruba - no answer.

CK1
01-17-2014, 02:01 AM
Don't know if I posted this but my tenants FILED for the appeal 2 weeks after the due date to file AND the judge the case anyway. Also he made a bad ruling. Would cost lots and lots of money to appeal

How much more of this can I take? I tried to write to the governor of Aruba - no answer.

If your tenant filed too late for the appeal, the case should be over, IMO. What does your lawyer say? Can he point out again to the judge that the deadline was missed by two weeks?

When did you write to the Governor? Maybe give it a bit more time?

I don't know how much more you can take. But if it were me, I would not give in. You came that far and I hope very much for you, that 2014 will have positive results for you!

Pegmeister
01-17-2014, 07:43 AM
Hate to say it but at this point I think I would go to my local newspaper and get the word out. Maybe the publicity would bring some attention to the case and they would give it a second look.

cindyo
01-17-2014, 08:16 AM
Don't take this the wrong way.... Just sell the house at a fire sale price and cut your loses now. Re buy something else . Have you thought of that😄. I feel so bad for you!!! Hang in there

Pegmeister
01-17-2014, 01:55 PM
Wish I had answers. I am absolutely baffled by this whole situation. Can't imagine the frustration you must feel.

CK1
01-17-2014, 09:31 PM
How to get this guy legally? Keep going!!!

IMO, you are very close winning the case. If he missed the deadline for his last appeal by two weeks, the case should have been already over.

If you weigh in selling the house at a cheaper price or pay lots of money for the next appeal... what is in your favor? Just a thought...

Andrea J.
01-18-2014, 09:18 AM
This is a thread that has brought attention of the pros/cons of being a landlord.
(Not just Aruba, but anywhere I suppose)

The OP (Lizzardo) has apparently done what she is supposed to do following the procedures set forth by her legal advisors.

It is certainly frustrating reading all of what is happening and what has happened. I keep thinking to myself "what a nightmare"

Moderator cap is on.......... Please folks, although we are all probably thinking of "ways to evict the tenant", please refrain from posting the ways that are not legal. A few things were posted yesterday that I had to remove. Those 2 posts, had suggestions/comments in writing, a few things that i am pretty certain we have all pondered. But since those options are not "legal" i was required to ask the posters to remove. I ended up having to remove them myself.

This is one of those moderation things that I would have preferred to let the posters edit themselves, but I could not wait any longer.

Thanks all............. Andrea James

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lizzardo
01-18-2014, 09:53 AM
I would like to apologize for the post I made. I did not consider that others could read what I wrote the wrong way. I was thinking
of who to write in the Aruba government more than the how others took it.

As you know, this is frustrating and I have other major things going on in my personal life.

I was not on the internet yesterday from Andrea's first post to her next post so I am sorry - I would have edited it myself if
I knew what was happening on this thread. I had no idea what was happening.

Sincerely
Lizzardo

Andrea J.
01-18-2014, 11:24 AM
thanks liz
........and on we go!
waiting for the resolution.

aquaman
01-18-2014, 12:34 PM
I think it is only fair that those posting understand the whole situation. I have introduced Liz and her husband to a member in good standing from the Aruban Realtors Association who is assisting behind the scenes. In addition Liz has been introduced to a competent lawyer with credibility in the system in Aruba. As with anywhere, the legal process does take time and since the introductions, things are moving ahead. It is my understanding that there is a Jan 30 hearing.
This has been a bad situation and hopefully when the facts are disclosed to the correct parties, a resolution will follow"

cindyo
01-18-2014, 03:36 PM
Thank you for posting a glimmer of hope. We are with you lizzardo

Jacki
01-20-2014, 10:05 AM
Hoping positive things come from the Jan 30th hearing! Good luck Liz!

lizzardo
01-25-2014, 12:44 PM
Thanks to everyone for their good wishes!!!

I am so glad that aquaman reached out to me and found these great people for me!
I really like the real estate agent who supports me 100% even if we are not selling at the moment.


I have a really good attorney and have a lot of faith in her. Our housing committee hearing is on
the 30th. The chances are very good we will win like last time.
Then after the decision, we have to see if they will appeal (most likely). They
don't have much of a case and we will make sure we have a different judge.

Last time - a lot of things were done wrong. This time I am confident they
will try their best to get this leech out of the house.

So send me those good vibrations on the 30th - I'll let you all know what happens
when I hear the decision.

CK1
01-25-2014, 06:26 PM
Thinking of you and sending those good vibrations!

All fingers and paws over here are crossed for you!!!!!!!! :)

purpleangel
01-27-2014, 02:10 PM
Sending {{{good vibes}}} your way. Good luck!!

bettyp
01-28-2014, 11:45 AM
Wishing you the best of luck.




Thanks to everyone for their good wishes!!!

I am so glad that aquaman reached out to me and found these great people for me!
I really like the real estate agent who supports me 100% even if we are not selling at the moment.


I have a really good attorney and have a lot of faith in her. Our housing committee hearing is on
the 30th. The chances are very good we will win like last time.
Then after the decision, we have to see if they will appeal (most likely). They
don't have much of a case and we will make sure we have a different judge.

Last time - a lot of things were done wrong. This time I am confident they
will try their best to get this leech out of the house.

So send me those good vibrations on the 30th - I'll let you all know what happens
when I hear the decision.

Jacki
01-28-2014, 12:36 PM
Two more days! Wishing you all the best!

WaltVB
01-30-2014, 12:16 PM
Well, today's the day. Wishing you lots of luck!

CK1
01-30-2014, 01:38 PM
Thinking about you and sending you lots and lots of positive vibes!

Good LUCK!!!!!!!!!

cindyo
01-31-2014, 08:19 AM
Lizzardo
pls keep us posted. I am sick over what has happened to you.
I pray you have good news for us today
will be thinking of you!!!!! Cindy

qlaval
02-04-2014, 01:47 PM
We want an update :) , we want an update.... :p

aquaman
02-05-2014, 05:33 PM
We want an update :) , we want an update.... :p


Hi

Liz is awaiting the final outcome later in month. So far I understand things went welll

Jacki
02-05-2014, 05:57 PM
Thanks for the update!!

cindyo
02-06-2014, 11:33 PM
I hope hope and pray for a good word!! Enuf of this horrible nightmare



Hi

Liz is awaiting the final outcome later in month. So far I understand things went welll

lizzardo
02-12-2014, 12:58 PM
Sorry to be slow with the updates. We know stuff happens (like the housing committee review) but there is a lot of waiting.
Same here with the law in the US. So here we go:

We are supposed to get the housing commission's decision tomorrow !
We have very good odds of winning. Then the next step is to see if they appeal. (wait again) Will
update you when I get the news! I would love to be lying by my pool right now!!!
We should throw a big party when I get the house back!!!!

Keep warm!!

CK1
02-12-2014, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the quick update, looking forward to your news tomorrow! So far, it sounds sooo good!!

Stay warm and positive! :)

Andrea J.
02-12-2014, 02:28 PM
If they are granted an appeal, then how much longer could this be drawn out?

Jacki
02-12-2014, 02:38 PM
continued good vibes being sent your way!

yefim8
02-12-2014, 09:18 PM
Good luck!

lizzardo
02-15-2014, 12:19 PM
Here's my update:

"our office did not received the decision from the Housing Committee as yet. We contacted their office and was informed that we will receive a hardcopy of the decision in the course of next week, as they are still busy processing the document."

So more waiting. We think the odds of him appealing will be high. He has bad reputation in Aruba. We are just hoping that he realizes we will never stop. I think he might have underestimated us.

So no party yet and then we wait to see if he appeals..... if he does appeal then we have to schedule a court date with the lower court which takes a while. How long? Not sure

So keep that good energy coming - or whatever energy it would be to make this guy decide not to appeal!!

Again thanks to everyone for their kind thoughts and support. It means so much to me and meek. Also helps me to know i'm not the only one that thinks the way I do.

love you guys!!!

qlaval
02-15-2014, 02:43 PM
I'm very confident that you will win this round and all the other ones if that's ever the case. But like you said the odds of him appealing are very high. He's a swindler in a lawyer suit. Sadly I don't see him giving up easily as it's so profitable for him to stay in your home even if he knows he is ultimately going to lose.

Buying time is his strategy. Either he stays for cheap or the owners are so stressed-out that they give up and give him money. For him it's a win-win situation.

Then he will move out and start looking for his next victim... and that's unacceptable, laws should be change to protect the good and honest people like you Liz. The lack of such laws in Aruba will cost them much in the long run, I for one always dream of purchasing a home in Aruba, not anymore... and I'm probably not the only one...

EVERYBODY is wishing a you a quick and easy solution and I would be the first one to cheer but as in a war you need to prepare yourself for the long run, you need not to put too much expectations for a quick solution that way you can protect yourself from painful deceptions. The good side is that you have finally a good lawyer and for the first time the winds are in your favor.

And who knows maybe that crook is tired of being one and he will come to his sense soon...

Hang on Liz, Hang on victory is ahead!

clash1013
02-15-2014, 06:32 PM
That is ridiculous! Why should you have to PAY him to get him out--to evict him? I would think all you would have to do to prove that the other person is subletting the house is to take pictures of him going into the house regularly or simply have someone else ask him what his address is. Best luck to you in resolving this nightmare favorably! What a headache!

lizzardo
02-17-2014, 11:12 AM
I'm not trying to project what is going to happen. It makes me crazy. This person's attorney in the past offered a cash payment and really good terms for him to move out of the house. You are totally correct - I feel like this is extortion. We just have to do a heck of a lot of waiting thru this whole process. 1. We wait for the housing committee's verdict. 2. We wait to see if they appeal. 3. We have to wait for a court date. 4. Have the hearing 5. wait for the judges decision.

cindyo
02-17-2014, 02:33 PM
Hang in there.
we are all rooting for you.
this little thought popped in my head, while it's stalking it might be fun.... Post the address and we can all drive by or stop in to see how he's doing... I know, not nice, but it would give me great satisfaction to drive him crazy

rob o
02-17-2014, 07:47 PM
Hang in there.
we are all rooting for you.
this little thought popped in my head, while it's stalking it might be fun.... Post the address and we can all drive by or stop in to see how he's doing... I know, not nice, but it would give me great satisfaction to drive him crazy

I would love to pay them a visit.

I know.....not condoned.

aquaman
02-20-2014, 11:30 AM
I received a discouraging email from Liz yesterday. The Housing Commission did not rule in her favour. In reading the outcome, the only conclusion I can draw us that they did not want to overturn the previous judges decision. Liz will now have to file an appeal within 14 days. This is a sad and bad situation. In her email to me she mentioned that she is too tired and discouraged to post this to the forum

Jacki
02-20-2014, 11:35 AM
Keep on truckin' Liz!! Sending good wishes!

qlaval
02-20-2014, 12:55 PM
An incredible drama... :doh:
I would not even whish that to someone I didn't like...

Liz for your sanity you need take a small break for that toxic situation, then when it's time you will get back on your feet and try again.

Take care.

WaltVB
02-20-2014, 01:01 PM
Liz, how bout this. Since it is your house and all, what if it were time for a renovation? Like taking an outside wall down or removing the roof? He might get to stay there, but maybe you could inconvenience him just a bit (I suggest a project that requires disconnecting the electric or water service to the house for full effect). I'm sure you would be given a fair amount of time to complete your renovation (it is Aruba) and maybe that would force him out .

purpleangel
02-20-2014, 05:11 PM
I am soooo sorry! I wish there was a magic wand to wave and make this all better! Hang in!

cindyo
02-20-2014, 05:17 PM
What the heck!! I could scream
post the address we all need to stop in for a visit
i am not kidding either
Creep

Andrea J.
02-20-2014, 05:28 PM
:( :( :(

Arubalisa
02-20-2014, 10:53 PM
Never in a million years will I invest in property in Aruba. This is an atrocity. :(

CK1
02-21-2014, 03:08 AM
I received a discouraging email from Liz yesterday. The Housing Commission did not rule in her favour. In reading the outcome, the only conclusion I can draw us that they did not want to overturn the previous judges decision. Liz will now have to file an appeal within 14 days. This is a sad and bad situation. In her email to me she mentioned that she is too tired and discouraged to post this to the forum

It's hard to understand why the Housing Commission made that decision.

This guy is young, healthy, single with no kids, he has an income ~ it's easy for him to move to another place!

Sure, he will not find such a gorgeous home at such a low rent again! It was a bargain for a limited time! Should he REALLY be allowed to continue to take advantage to live in a luxury home? Despite the rightful owners wanting their home desperately back?

I hope the judge in the appeal court will put a stop to this! Enough is enough!

cindyo
02-21-2014, 08:14 AM
I woke up this morning and still felt RAGE over this... I'm like can she sell it low, have real estate agents trapes thru the house, can she do reno's on it while he's there, does she have furniture in there that she wants back, is there a car involved in this????
Raise the rent? Put it into foreclosure? Get police to go in to see if there is any damages?

I am in absolute disbelief that he is still there. Lizzardo hang in there, I play this out in my mind and would probably be in jail if it were my house.

Andrea J.
02-21-2014, 08:25 AM
cindy, i too would be in jail "making little ricks outta big rocks" if it were my house.
i do not know how liz and mick are staying sane through all of this.
I woke up this morning and still felt RAGE over this... I'm like can she sell it low, have real estate agents trapes thru the house, can she do reno's on it while he's there, does she have furniture in there that she wants back, is there a car involved in this????
Raise the rent? Put it into foreclosure? Get police to go in to see if there is any damages?

I am in absolute disbelief that he is still there. Lizzardo hang in there, I play this out in my mind and would probably be in jail if it were my house.

lizzardo
02-21-2014, 10:44 AM
I was far from sane yesterday. We talked to our lawyer and are proceeding to appeal the housing committee ruling. This guy is saying we have not applied for residency yet - but we need to be in the census first and that would mean we need to get the renter off the the address. Plus it won't do anything but be a argument they have. We have looked into the 'do something to the house thing' and there is a clause in the contract about if we do modifications, they have some rights to get $$ because they can not live in the house. So I will wait to hear our next court date. I really want to thank everyone for all the support. I prob. would be questioning my sanity and also it's good to know that my reaction is normal. I am still in shock and am going to be in bed today and prob. tomorrow. That is the only break we can afford.

Also just a note - they knew the house was for sale from day 1. There was a clause in the contract they had to move out w/i 90 days of an offer. Now they are fighting us saying we had the house for sale. They block the real estate agents from seeing the whole house (because it now is 2 units - which is illegal in our rental contact) They have done so many things against our lease it's not funny. So let's hope the judge will be sane and I will finally get a break in one of many issues I am facing.

Just want to thank everyone - can't type any more because i'm starting to cry. I do believe in our real estate agent and lawyer so that is a plus!

Pegmeister
02-21-2014, 12:11 PM
It's unbelievable tht this type of situation could continue. Don't give up!! There has to be some way to get justice.

gaby
02-21-2014, 12:24 PM
I can't say I'm surprised about their whole judicial system.

rob o
02-21-2014, 11:24 PM
I would make the smug SOB "an offer he couldn't refuse".

A horse's head in his bed would serve as notice that you're serious, just like in the movie.

Andrea J.
02-21-2014, 11:34 PM
folks………a reminder that this forum is owned and run by the Aruba Tourism Authority and we need to keep the posts in line with the "rules"
that being said, in this particular situation we all may have the need to vent a little, so I just ask that we keep this thread in line with ,or close to being in line with the rules.

rob o………..but i love horses!!

cindyo
02-22-2014, 08:06 AM
Agreed, venting and trying to make lizzaedo smile

MaryG
02-23-2014, 07:09 PM
Just a thought, I am sorry if I am out of line, but if "Aruba" owns and operates this site, shouldn't they be worried about their government and what has happened to this poor family? The U.S. makes up a large part of their tourism and is buying up second homes and/or retirement homes there. With all due respect, perhaps the powers that be, in Aruba, should worry how WE think. Respectfully, aruba lover, Mary G. (Also, perhaps one should think about going on a site that isn't monitored by Aruba tourism).

Andrea J.
02-23-2014, 07:40 PM
The aruba tourism authority has instituted rules re: this forum and my reference to it in my last post had nothing to do with tourism it had to do with the rules of this site which the tourism dept owns ....meaning we really should not be talking about illegal acts upon the tenant.

respectfully, I do not believe this is about aruba gvmt, but about Dutch law and the Dutch judicial system and crooked despicable tenants and their legal reps.

yes there r other aruba sites out there with maybe less stringent guidelines and maybe lizzardo has already posted the story on those sites

cindyo
02-23-2014, 08:58 PM
We totally understand.
Our hearts break for Lizzardo.
We are truly angered by the situation
This Aruba site represents the good, bad and ugly of Aruba......and unfortunately this is the UGLY.
We will continue to have interest in how it plays out. Lizzardo, keep posting !!!

MaryG
02-24-2014, 08:26 AM
Yes, Andrea I hear you. I feel so badly for this poor family. Just a sad situation. Praying all goes well for them.

lizzardo
03-11-2014, 12:00 PM
Thanks everyone for helping me smile - you are succeeding. I just can't stand this whole waiting game but dread if it went fast too.

So my latest status is that we filed an appeal and now wait for a court date. Again more waiting. I just wish this guy would just move already. Just thinking about him just gets me so mad about how can someone live their lives as such a bad person taking advantage of people.

Jacki
03-11-2014, 01:38 PM
Thanks for keeping us in the loop - sending positive vibes your way!

lizzardo
03-20-2014, 10:52 AM
Thank you everyone for everything. We are still waiting. As for information on our house or the people involved that have or are causing us so much pain - I am not releasing any information. I request that the many people on the board who know where our house is not tell anyone where it is.

I do not need these "people" to come after us with some trumped up charges or anything.

Needless to say that all will be revealed in regards as who was involved in this and to avoid these people at all costs.

I am dying to do this but once again my DH is holding me back. That's why i'm not sure I can go to Aruba on the next trip. Aruban jails are not a nice place - makes the US jails look like the Ritz!

I know what doesn't kill you makes you stronger but with all the different issues i'm facing right now - I will be a WWF wrestler or something....

ricky59
03-20-2014, 03:53 PM
two words= VITO CORLEONE

cindyo
03-20-2014, 05:42 PM
Liz
stay strong friend.
none of us would do anything to jeopardize a positive outcome for you
we may say we'd like to do something though !
Rob and I are sickened by it all
just think... Karma's a *itch. What comes around goes around.

Liz - Aruba Lover
03-20-2014, 06:25 PM
Liz
Karma's a *itch. What comes around goes around.

DITTO! Boy, I do believe in that. Many years ago someone stole money that I was in charge of collecting our office birthday club. No one believed that this guy stole the money. So I had to give my own money to replace it. I knew he did it because only me, him and our boss had the key to the cabinet where I locked the money envelope. Six months later he called in work that he was at the dentist with the worst tooth abscess that the dentist ever saw. The dentist's bill was the exact amount that he stole from me. Liz, this guy that is screwing you will get his due. My prayers are with you that this is resolved soon.

Andrea J.
03-21-2014, 08:05 AM
at this point, i am "again" asking that when one posts in this thread to please make certain the posting is within the guidelines of the rules set forward by the Aruba Tourism Authority.
thanks

M&A
04-04-2014, 09:06 PM
Hi All, We are new to this Forum, but reading this disaster made my wife and I have some serious second thoughts about purchasing a property with long-term tenants. We are planning our 4th trip to the island next week and plan to look at some more properties and investigate the legalities around long-term leases.

Does anyone know if there is anyway to protect yourself from squatters like this? Is there a legal way to structure a lease such that you can terminate the lease and ask the tenants to leave? Or is it such that if the tenants don't want to vacate, you have no power to remove them regardless of the lease verbiage.

Appreciate anyone's input on the topic as we are still interested in buying in Aruba, but very wary now. Also, if anyone knows of a good real estate attorney, PM me a referral would be great.

Best. M&A

Andrea J.
04-04-2014, 09:14 PM
welcome to the aruba.com communty forum.

i would recommend that you contact a good aruba attorney and you may also want to private message lizzardo.

apparently dutch law (aruba court system) is very difficult for many of us to understand.

again, welcome!

another person that you may want to message is Aquaman.


Hi All, We are new to this Forum, but reading this disaster made my wife and I have some serious second thoughts about purchasing a property with long-term tenants. We are planning our 4th trip to the island next week and plan to look at some more properties and investigate the legalities around long-term leases.

Does anyone know if there is anyway to protect yourself from squatters like this? Is there a legal way to structure a lease such that you can terminate the lease and ask the tenants to leave? Or is it such that if the tenants don't want to vacate, you have no power to remove them regardless of the lease verbiage.

Appreciate anyone's input on the topic as we are still interested in buying in Aruba, but very wary now. Also, if anyone knows of a good real estate attorney, PM me a referral would be great.

Best. M&A

lizzardo
04-30-2014, 10:35 AM
Hi Everyone,

Quick note to let you know I am still alive. Remember this is our second time doing this entire process. We filed to the housing commission in Jan. We got their decision in Feb. We are at the point now where we and the renter have presented their case to the judge(that took two months) - we had to file our appeal first then after a long period of time the renter filed his response. I am unsure how that part works. I have to ask our lawyer (who we love) if she just filed her paperwork or actually presented it to the judge. So what is next is a court date where both parties appear before the judge. This usually takes a long time for a court date.

I saw some people wanted advise on renting long term - I have a lawyer that I trust (after going thru many many lawyers) which is a find! PM me and i'll give you more info. I do not want to post any names yet because god knows if I would get in trouble.

cindyo
04-30-2014, 07:52 PM
Lizzardo- hang in there. Thanks for update, we are definitely hoping all plays out in your favor.

CK1
05-01-2014, 12:13 AM
Thanks for the update, Lizzardo. I think about you often and hope, all works out well for you!

kent
05-13-2014, 10:26 PM
I really feel for you guys and are wishing the best outcome for you. I know things are a lot slower pace in Aruba and this does take a lot of patients. You have really been a trooper thru this ordeal and I wish the very best for the two of you. Aquaman is a great guy and I am glad u got hooked up with him. God Bless.

lizzardo
05-21-2014, 10:41 AM
Okay - here is a request to all my friends - please pray, ask, meditate that to the end of this month we have good luck and win our Aruba case and get our tenant out of our house finally. We really need a win on this one.

hatteras
05-21-2014, 11:02 AM
You are definitely in my prayers, Lizzardo.

Pegmeister
05-21-2014, 11:16 AM
Praying, praying, praying that all goes well!!

Andrea J.
05-21-2014, 11:38 AM
We drove by lizzardo's house yesterday and there were 3 people in the driveway. One looked to be a gardener/yard worker and he was getting out of a beat up old pick up. The other 2 were men that were dressed as if they were heading to the beach. Both had beach bags and they were standing out in the driveway as well. (There are 2 driveways this was the one to the right)

Jacki
05-21-2014, 02:42 PM
Prayers and all sorts of positivity heading your way!

CK1
05-21-2014, 02:57 PM
I was just thinking about you. Sending positive thoughts and prayers your way!

Andrea J.
06-20-2014, 02:52 PM
i have heard from liz a few times and i have asked her to post the most recent details.
she has asked me to post it, but i feel it needs to come from her when she is able.

cindyo
06-20-2014, 06:18 PM
Hopeing its good


i have heard from liz a few times and i have asked her to post the most recent details.
she has asked me to post it, but i feel it needs to come from her when she is able.

CK1
06-20-2014, 08:01 PM
i have heard from liz a few times and i have asked her to post the most recent details.
she has asked me to post it, but i feel it needs to come from her when she is able.

In the past few weeks I have been thinking about Liz as well. Hopefully, it's a positive outcome.

lizzardo
06-21-2014, 10:34 AM
Hi Everyone,

I had this long write up that I was going to post everything that has
happened to me including "settlement offers" or as I call it "extortion".
We have had 2 offensive offers in which it seems that they think we are
"wealthy americans" which is so far from the truth it's not funny.

I have decided to hold back until I hear from the July 1st ruling
from the judge. We are very frustrated. The issue is this:
The judge looks at is the "need" of the house for the owner and tenant. They
said that since we have this house in Fla - we didn't need the house in Aruba. We
told the lawyer that we couldn't move to Aruba unless the house in Aruba was empty.
The other thing they were looking for was our progress on getting our residency back.
It is much easier to do that while you are on the island verses flying back and forth.
Plus we have the 6 month no residency required. They do not understand that.

I'd like to thank Aquaman for all his help. He helped us get in contact with a
good real estate agent and a great lawyer. This whole thing is really complicated
and he has been wonderful answering posts for me. To tell you the truth, every
time I write about this I start to cry. This is not a typical situation. We had
heard horror stories about renting but thought we had protected ourselves.
Obviously this was not the case. A lot was caused by our real estate agent.

So thank you Aquaman for everything. I don't think we could have come this
far without you. Our first lawyer did not do a good job. We did not know this because
of the difference in language and law. There are not transcripts (which would
be in dutch any way) so we are behind the 8 ball with the entire thing. You are
a true friend and I am so grateful for your help.

I'll let you know what happens on July 1st or 2nd. Cross your fingers and send
that energy. We don't have a fuzzy feeling because they don't get the selling
our house here and getting our residency yet.

Thanks everyone!
Liz

PS If you have any connections or ideas to help us, please let us know!

Andrea J.
06-21-2014, 11:03 AM
thanks for posting liz!
july 1 is just around the corner.

Arubalisa
06-21-2014, 11:25 AM
Again, I am so very sorry that this has happened to you. :mad:


The judge looks at is the "need" of the house for the owner and tenant. They said that since we have this house in Fla - we didn't need the house in Aruba.

So now it sounds like Aruba has "squatters rights". Very very sad that an investment can be taken over for the "greater good". :mad:

Just another reminder to oneself NOT to invest in property on the island of Aruba. :mad:

aquaman
06-21-2014, 11:48 AM
Hi Arubalisa

As Aruba has Dutch law in effect, squatters rights have existed for a long time. I own and have a number of friends who also own and rent out. Most have never experienced the problem that Liz has. I suspect that Liz may have been setup from the very beginning based on what she has told me. While there are different laws in effect in Aruba, I don't think this one case should detract from making an investment. Due diligence is required when both purchasing and renting. As with everywhere, S*** happens there. There are a number of short term vacation rental horror stories as well. I personally think it is super important to have a credible, trusted and knowledgeable person on the Island to represent ones interests. It took me a few years to establish that.





Again, I am so very sorry that this has happened to you. :mad:



So now it sounds like Aruba has "squatters rights". Very very sad that an investment can be taken over for the "greater good". :mad:

Just another reminder to oneself NOT to invest in property on the island of Aruba. :mad:

Pegmeister
06-21-2014, 12:23 PM
I'm saddened to hear that you are still dealing with this after all this time. Hopefully July 1st you will get the news you need to hear. Saying prayers!

CK1
06-21-2014, 04:36 PM
Thanks for the update, Liz. I'm sorry that the news could not be more positive for now. But I'm still hopeful for Juli 1. I'm very happy for you that you have found such a good friend like Aquaman in this very difficult situation who brought you together with the most important people: a qualified lawyer and a qualified real estate person.

I'll continue sending you lots of positive thoughts and energy. And prayers.

cindyo
06-22-2014, 08:40 AM
Dear NY Times...I have a story for you

Lizzardo you are on my mind frequently. I am sorry for the Bullsh** to have to put up with
stay strong

aquaman
07-02-2014, 11:49 AM
Sad Sad!!!!! The Judge has ruled against Liz and Mick!!!!

Andrea J.
07-02-2014, 11:57 AM
:( :(
Sad Sad!!!!! The Judge has ruled against Liz and Mick!!!!

Pegmeister
07-02-2014, 12:17 PM
It's so difficult to understand the rationalization!

Liz - Aruba Lover
07-02-2014, 12:18 PM
What injustice. My heart breaks for them.

WaltVB
07-02-2014, 12:43 PM
You must be kidding! What a travesty of justice. Well, there goes my dream of owning in Aruba. I wouldn't want my hard earned money and status laughed at by some unknowing judge. If I'd gone through this I'd be in the "Joran van der Sloot room" at the KIA... Jeeesh...

Jacki
07-02-2014, 12:51 PM
unbelievable!

aquaman
07-02-2014, 01:05 PM
For those interested, here is a excerpt from the letter to Liz from her lawyer:


Dear Mr. XXXXXXX,

I hereby inform you that despite our outlook on the case, the Judge didnot rule in our favor and our petition was declined.

Based on the attached decision the Court believes:
1. That since their previous decision rendered onNovember 19, 2013, there aren’t any new facts or conditions.
2. the non compliance with the rental agreementespecially the articles 6, 8, 9 en 15 of the lease agreement was not clarified.There were no other emails presented stating that Mr.XXXXX was insearch/contact of tenants for negotiation in accordance with the articlesmentioned (4.4 – 4.5).
3. The fact that Mr.XXXXXXX has a home in Florida andmeanwhile no measures were taken toobtaining a permit on Aruba. In order for the Judge to take a decision ifXXXXXXX can come to reside in Aruba there has to be a petition forresidence permit. The previous permits (renteniervergunningen) are not aguarantee for renewal to obtain such permit.
4. Also the new ground, discrepancy between the costs ofexploitation/operation and the rental income, has not been proven sufficiently.

gaby
07-02-2014, 03:18 PM
I'm not sure I understand any of this. Are these people allowed to stay in the home for the rest of their lives or till "THEY" want to leave. if there is a lease, once it is over, shouldn't they have to move. I am assuming that if Aruba has "leases", it must be because it means something (even under their laws). I think I'll just stick to renting in Aruba, no hassles. If I buy, it will be in the USA. Yes, you have people that overstay their "welcome" so to speak but not indefinitely. And the courts pretty much have common sense.

Jacki
07-02-2014, 04:14 PM
I don't claim to understand any of this, but, to me, #3 sounds like there is still an opportunity to explore submitting paperwork. And #2 sound like maybe there will be an opportunity to negotiate at the end of the term?

Best wishes and continued positivity being sent your way!

lizzardo
07-03-2014, 02:51 PM
I don't claim to understand any of this, but, to me, #3 sounds like there is still an opportunity to explore submitting paperwork. And #2 sound like maybe there will be an opportunity to negotiate at the end of the term?

Best wishes and continued positivity being sent your way!

Hi Everyone,

I have never posted on the board before. Liz wanted you guys to know what happened. She is in bad shape and "holding up in the bedroom with her cats". We did lose again despite having a much better attorney. There is so much s&^% going on and we know why this is happening.
I know Liz did not want to mention names but I want you to know that the real problem is we are renting to an shady Dutch lawyer who is taking advantage of the system. There is so much he has done - he has tried to extort $45k from us to leave and the second was 1.5 years of free
rent. Liz wasn't sure that Aquaman was posting so she ask me to send a post. Aquaman - can you please tell people what is
happening? You have been a godsend to us.

Thanks
Mick (Lizzardo's Hubby)

Jacki
07-03-2014, 03:05 PM
Oh, the tenant is a lawyer well versed in Dutch law. That makes a huge difference. So sorry.

Andrea J.
07-03-2014, 06:56 PM
Aquaman did post.
see post #144

Until i get guidance from the Aruba Tourism Authority, post 140 will remain deleted and this thread closed.

lizzardo
07-04-2014, 10:11 AM
Hi All,

My migraine has finally subsided and i'm trying to catch up on things. Many of you might not know but I am in the 10 - 15% of people who get migraines that don't respond to drugs. So when I get these rulings, I get tense which kicks off the migraine and i'm in bed in the dark for days at a time.
That is why I have been asking aquaman post for me because I am not able to. I don't want Mick to post because we differ in opinions of what we should post. Needless to day this has caused a big strain in our marriage.

I would like to thank everyone who brainstormed and took their time to offer support and to help me. I do not know what to do. Mick has his opinions but as I said we do not agree.

I have never felt before what a huge family we have here and how we stick up for each other. I am really so grateful and I love you all.

I did not see what was posted yesterday so if anyone could let me know what happened, I would be grateful for the information. From the little I was told yesterday a really horrible letter was written to one of our members. I can not believe it. I have been fighting to take the 'high road' of this dispute but Mick and all of you are right, this is not a fair fight. I felt that our tenant wasn't be dishonest but I now am thinking he is.

I do not know how he sleeps at night. This has caused damage to my health and marriage,
but I don't think he really cares. Again, I just don't know what to do.

I would like to apologize to the admins if you had to remove or lock threads. I have to
keep out of this for legal reasons, so if you have any ideas or information, please contact
aquaman. He can decide what I should know or not know.

I love and thank you all. Please pray for me and send any healing energy my way.