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lizzardo
09-25-2014, 01:18 PM
Still nothing. Did some stuff... now to wait. Never heard back from anyone in the Gov't, bar association for more info or the real estate people I had dealt with previously. Do have one real estate person who stepped up to the plate because he was embarrassed for what happened but not much he can do now. Surprised the real estate people didn't even reply since their market may be tarnished. One did but it was a denial all the way.

I hate this so bad

act1966
09-25-2014, 01:35 PM
What about driving the tenant out? Turn off the utilities (electrical, water), change the locks, etc.

Jacki
09-25-2014, 03:03 PM
I wonder if it would be worthwhile to plan an extended stay on the island to be able to handle this issue in person. I can't imagine it is an easy task trying to deal from another country.

Andrea J.
09-25-2014, 03:04 PM
that would be illegal
What about driving the tenant out? Turn off the utilities (electrical, water), change the locks, etc.

act1966
09-25-2014, 03:10 PM
that would be illegal

It has sounded like 'legal' is relative in this situation.

danadog56
09-26-2014, 12:07 PM
well, it may be illegal in the US, but Aruba may not have the same laws as we do....I think as an owner he should be able to turn off anything he wants in order to get his house back.....BTW, since I am not sure of whole story...what exactly happened ???

WaltVB
09-26-2014, 01:37 PM
well, it may be illegal in the US, but Aruba may not have the same laws as we do....I think as an owner he should be able to turn off anything he wants in order to get his house back.....BTW, since I am not sure of whole story...what exactly happened ???

It's a long story, here is the link http://www.aruba.com/forum/f34/problems-our-long-term-rental-we-owners-60433/

cubella59
09-27-2014, 10:08 PM
Liz,

It's Alicia and Gail from Koyari. I can't believe the last time I saw you we were sitting in my patio in Aruba and you were telling us how happy you were to rent it. I am reading this thread (the earlier one)for the first time and I am just speechless. I can't believe what you are going through but knowing first hand how slanted the laws are towards "criminal rights", sadly it does not surprise me at all what you are dealing with.Dutch laws are a joke. It's that simple and I have learned that the hard way. Aruba is all smoke and mirrors. From Govt agencies to police, they are allutterly lazy and incompetent and the Govt agencies can't/won't help those that have invested in their island. It was a rude awakening for me as well. PM me if you want to speak live. Just moved down to Fla as well.

For those of you thinking of investing in Aruba- Don't. If Liz's saga isn'tenough I can provide more framework why Aruba is not a good investment.

Andrea- pls don't delete. It’s important everyone understands what they are dealing with. After all, this is the forum for those potentially considering amove to Aruba

I also have a sour taste in my mouth about Aruba. I will be selling my home and will never step foot on that abominal island again. Very sad.

My neighbor is an attorney and very well connected in Aruba. PM me if you want his name. Happy to call him and do an intro.

Best to you and Mick,

Alicia

act1966
09-28-2014, 01:37 AM
For those of you thinking of investing in Aruba- Don't. If Liz's saga isn'tenough I can provide more framework why Aruba is not a good investment.

Alicia

Ouch. It would be nice to hear a counter view. It can't ALL be bad, can it? I know this is one story of rental-gone-bad but I can think of five of the same story that have happened to friends here in Canada.

yefim8
09-28-2014, 01:44 AM
i have more then five here in New York.Aruba nowhere even close to what is up here

CK1
09-29-2014, 12:26 AM
Still nothing. Did some stuff... now to wait. Never heard back from anyone in the Gov't, bar association for more info or the real estate people I had dealt with previously. Do have one real estate person who stepped up to the plate because he was embarrassed for what happened but not much he can do now. Surprised the real estate people didn't even reply since their market may be tarnished. One did but it was a denial all the way.

I hate this so bad

Hi Liz,

So sorry to hear that the problem is still not solved. It really sounds unbelievable that it's dragging on for so long now.

It sounds, you are still waiting on something. Maybe/hopefully there is still some hope that the matter comes to an end and you get your property back.

Sending you lots of positive thoughts and strength.

AUA1989
09-29-2014, 10:04 AM
Laws aside, I cannot believe how utterly void of common sense the whole thing is!! Good luck. Wish there was something we could all do!

lizzardo
10-02-2014, 01:21 PM
I sure wish so too. Some people from the boards wrote to some places but everything got deleted and locked. Nothing happened / no idea who wrote.
I swear - if someone was smart with connections and wanted to restore some of the harm this thing has take one - they would either approach us
or him. Tell him to leave or just buy our house and get rid of us. Now that doesn't mean we wouldn't find another house but prob. that is what would
happen or not.

Andrea J.
10-02-2014, 03:21 PM
the reason some things on this forum/board were locked was becacuse one of the forum members had posted personal contact info for your renter.
totally not allowed.

lizzardo
10-07-2014, 01:42 PM
I totally agree with you Andrea. All this stuff happened while I was bedridden. I have always been very careful about telling anyone the names of the whole host of people involved. But I understand that these people just wanted to help and someone found out his/her name somehow. Island is pretty small and everyone kinda does know everything going arrive. They had good hearts and I am still touched by how much people care about each others on these boards. Nothing came of it that I know of but it was all well intentioned. I think what made them really upset was the renter's remarks about Americans and how they should "watch the dutch" to learn how to act (or something like that). Still waiting....Aruba time is Aruba time.

smoki
10-12-2014, 07:53 PM
Still saying prayers and also praying for Karma for this guy, boy when that hits, watch out it is going to be bad! You just can't be bad your whole life!

lizzardo
01-11-2015, 01:42 PM
Hate to keep posting this but here is my update. Happy Holidays and Happy New Years everyone!

We are still waiting.....we are close but with the holidays everything slows down to a crawl if you can believe it. So it's been over 2 years last Nov. We contacted him the sept before that that we did not want to renew so you can count. All I know is this nightmare needs to end. We need and should get our house back. We have tried everything and have a strategy but it's just taking a long time.

Thanks to everyone for the kind wishes and thoughts! Love you all!

CK1
01-11-2015, 03:33 PM
Hate to keep posting this but here is my update. Happy Holidays and Happy New Years everyone!

We are still waiting.....we are close but with the holidays everything slows down to a crawl if you can believe it. So it's been over 2 years last Nov. We contacted him the sept before that that we did not want to renew so you can count. All I know is this nightmare needs to end. We need and should get our house back. We have tried everything and have a strategy but it's just taking a long time.

Thanks to everyone for the kind wishes and thoughts! Love you all!

Thanks for the update! Hang in there! Hope to get your house back sooner than later.

Happy New Year to you as well! :)

Pegmeister
01-11-2015, 10:26 PM
Happy New Year!! Says g prayers that this is the year it all gets resolved!!!!

Jacki
01-12-2015, 11:30 AM
Continued wishes for some good luck!

lizzardo
02-09-2015, 05:07 PM
Well we are still waiting. Sometimes I can not believe how slow Aruba can be!

lizzardo
03-11-2015, 01:23 PM
Just got an email from someone asking what is going on. Well stuff is going on, not sure what it is but looks like something might happen. Pray that it's in our favor this time. I really could use something good happening to me right now. I'm tired of all of this and really feeling down.

brady bear
03-11-2015, 01:31 PM
Just got an email from someone asking what is going on. Well stuff is going on, not sure what it is but looks like something might happen. Pray that it's in our favor this time. I really could use something good happening to me right now. I'm tired of all of this and really feeling down.


Prayers and thoughts heading you way... could go there myself and take them out.
Cathi

Pegmeister
03-11-2015, 01:42 PM
Many prayers that you will finally get the news you have been waiting so long for!!

Andrea J.
03-11-2015, 07:17 PM
frustrating and consuming!
i hope that all is resolved soon.

Jacki
03-12-2015, 09:26 AM
Hoping it's all good :)

hatteras
03-12-2015, 09:27 AM
Praying that you get good news.

CK1
03-17-2015, 12:30 AM
I'm sending positive thoughts your way and hope that you receive finally the good news you have been waiting for so long!

lizzardo
03-22-2015, 01:44 PM
Some people have asked me for names of the people involved. I just want to put this out there. This is the same thing I posted on the other board:

I wish I could name names - but someone figured out who was in the house because I had said it was a lawyer - all hell broke loose and the moderator had to delete the thread. Someone emailed the renter's law firm and got a response from the renter stating a lot of negative things about Americans and how we could all learn from the dutch. Not commenting - just reporting. He is a jackass and I don't think there is anything I could do that would make him change his mind. I and others have contacted every minister related to this situation and have gotten no help. The Aruban bar system will not do anything. So if anyone
has any people or ideas that would help - please PM me.

If you are interested in the real estate person who got me in this position.......I might let you know by PM
The real estate people who I have dealt with except for one who is great - I would be really hesitant
to use anyone one. But this person really screwed me and I was in a delicate situation - my mom
was dying. Told me that it's great to have an upstanding professional in my house. The rent money
had to be low because we were selling the house (which had to be taken off the market because of the
lawsuit) and there was a 90 day leave clause if the house sold. I was simply taken advantage of.
The person gave us a contact - said it was a standard rental contract (I assumed (wrong) like it is
in the US) and now I not really sure I have a contract. They have been in my house over 2 years now
and there is not end date that they have to leave. So i'm just insane these days.

Jacki
03-23-2015, 09:06 AM
Thanks for the follow up and making it clear that it is not necessary to name the party(s) involved.

Randi
03-23-2015, 10:51 AM
As I offered this opinion before, if I were you I would contact an American media source to do a piece on owning property in Aruba and what can happen. No one likes bad publicity especially without a positive outcome. This may move things along since there are so many US citizens owning or wanting to own property in Aruba and the government may not like the negative publicity. A media outlet can be your best option, imo, since you have tried everything else. In addition, the lawyer who is renting your house may not like the negative publicity as he is a professional too and this could just be the "nudge" to get him out.

gaby
03-23-2015, 01:04 PM
Randi, I think that's a brilliant idea...playing by the rules only works when both sides do that. if one side plays dirty, then I say "bring it on"..:)

ArubaAce
03-23-2015, 07:51 PM
I like that Idea! In NY some of the news channel help people out in these type of situation. There was one about slum landlord in one of the boroughs which they exposed, there was one about an agency who would promise to find jobs for people for a fee and did not deliver etc. In the end they had no choice but to settle with the person complaining.

rob o
03-23-2015, 08:07 PM
As I offered this opinion before, if I were you I would contact an American media source to do a piece on owning property in Aruba and what can happen. No one likes bad publicity especially without a positive outcome. This may move things along since there are so many US citizens owning or wanting to own property in Aruba and the government may not like the negative publicity. A media outlet can be your best option, imo, since you have tried everything else. In addition, the lawyer who is renting your house may not like the negative publicity as he is a professional too and this could just be the "nudge" to get him out.

brilliant idea!

lizzardo
04-12-2015, 12:41 PM
brilliant idea!

I think we are going to look into that. Seeing how another issue that happened in Aruba got so much press -
ours should get a lot. Especially with my mom's request to spread her ashes there and not being able to
do now for 3 years now and my dad in the condition he is - I will get a ton of sympathy from the news
teams!

lizzardo
04-16-2015, 11:55 AM
I don't know if my post was deleted or posted somewhere else so I just want to repost. If this gets deleted, could the moderator let me know they are deleting it and why.

Hi All,

Just want to clear up some things. #1 I have never said anything about violence or breaking any US or Aruban law. #2 He pays his rent but was late 2 months and did not pay the 5% penality (surprise surprise). I don't think I would ever contact Nancy
Grace on this because I don't know if I could stand talking to her but it's always nice to know that would be the 'final solution'.
#3 We have shown that we intend to move back by listing our house on the market here - however we have a clause saying we
can't close until we have the house in Aruba available and then we will be homeless. We have kept many cats from our Aruba Kitten Rescue and can not get a rental. We are filing to DIMAS for residency - issue is that we are trying to use the price of our sold home in Florida as income but no one in Aruba seems to get that. So we are just going to have to show them other income. They are also restructuring the DIMAS and SIA systems so things are changing all the time. Frustrating - OMG! So it's a catch-22 thing. But we will be getting some money soon so our DIMAS issue will be over unless they change it again! We had 5 years being a full time resident so you think they would be cool. But it's DIMAS.

I have been thinking about this and would love everyone's opinion on my ideas on how to get publicity.
I have thought of several ways to go about this:
1. Local news and hope it's picked up nationally - but all of Florida will know - not sure it would make it nationally
2. Contact the Travel Network because they have international house hunters and they could do a special about what anyone should know before moving overseas.
3. Contact Destination America because they have several 'buying the..' shows and again informing people who are buying out of the country
4. Contacting FYI/H2 or We because they also have programming about buying houses.

We were even thinking of getting a student who is majoring in the media to do a story - show the business, our house, us over skype and all the 'extortion' offers we have gotten from them and then sending it to the networks. Our renter has shown disdain already that he hates Americans and think we don't know anything about 'following the rules' or something to that nature and suggesting we watch the dutch people and could learn some lessons. (That was posted on the boards).

We are also thinking of interviewing the real estate agents about this too. That should be interesting since they
said they had 'vetted this man' (who has a past by just goggling his name) and giving us a 'standard lease' which
was thrown out in court and now we are not sure what we have but we do not have an end date of when he will
leave.

We also have people like Alicia and others who might want to be included in this because of what happened to them.
This will show we are not just an 'unusual' case. There are other cases that are actually worse than mine - but I
think they will get resolution before me because I have a lawyer renter.

I haven't talked this out with my DH yet and I don't know if we would give our renter notice of this. He lives up to his
reputation of being a bully who will try to win at all costs. I don't think this is breaking any law at all. We have contacted
(and some people on the boards have too) the Aruban bar, real estate agents and Aruban ministers who have not
even replied to us let alone help us. I don't know if contacting them first would be a good route to go.

Please let me know what you think. Some people have emailed me concerned about how we would be received
by Aruba when we move back. We have no idea but basically we have been used by someone who is using their
'knowledge of the law' to stay in our house over 3 years now at a low low rent price and we were not able to raise
the rent on how it should be.

Also if anyone you know somewhere in the Aruban bar or government who could step in on our defense so something
so he goes. This issue (which they should known about for a long time) shows how this could affect North Americans
from deciding to buy houses in Aruba and how some people were thinking of renting the house before moving becuase
they wanted to get in while prices were lower. My case is certainly a 'black mark' on the way Aruba treats one of
it's biggest sources of income. I just wish they would help. They don't seem to understand how this could affect
their 'bottom line' and Aruba needs money!

Love you all! Thanks for all the love and support!
Lizzardo

Andrea J.
04-16-2015, 12:02 PM
liz is this the forum where you wanted this?
there is another aruba bb that had some recent activity/questions re: your situation.
maybe you should post it there too

your posts are not deleted

i think that you may be confusing your posts here and on the other aruba bb

WaltVB
04-16-2015, 12:57 PM
Liz, I'm not sure a local market is where you need to be concerned. I know there are a lot of people going/buying in Aruba that are based in Florida, but I would aim for the Northeastern market. Aruba advertises on stations in New England where there is a huge market for the island. Hit 'em where the real money is coming from.

cindyo
04-16-2015, 04:51 PM
Boston would be the first place I would hit.
hint; Trip Advisor is located there

gaby
04-16-2015, 07:34 PM
I may have missed something but does this guy have a lease? If the lease is up, does Aruban authorities say that he can still stay there? Because that would mean a lease is a useless document & Aruba can't possibly have a judicial system that is more backwards than an under developed third world country, can they? I mean if a lease is up, don't renew it. I know that sounds simple but it's pretty basic law in most countries.

CK1
04-16-2015, 08:37 PM
I may have missed something but does this guy have a lease? If the lease is up, does Aruban authorities say that he can still stay there? Because that would mean a lease is a useless document & Aruba can't possibly have a judicial system that is more backwards than an under developed third world country, can they? I mean if a lease is up, don't renew it. I know that sounds simple but it's pretty basic law in most countries.

I'm not sure if I understood it right but I believe there is a lease which was for one year at a low rent with the clause that the house might be sold during that time (however, this tenant never any prospective buyer in to see the house) and after that first year it should be determined if the lease will be continued or not. Which, IMO, is one of the huge problems that this tenant takes now advantage of as there was not a clear, limited time frame stated.

Many times, Aruban laws are based on Dutch law. Which is similar to German law. To get rid of a tenant is very difficult as many times apartments and houses which get rented out are seen as "investments". Many times, the landlord has to go to court to get a tenant out.

If the landlord claims he wants to move into the apartment or house himself, that would be a good reason to ask the tenant to move out. However, the bar of proof in court is very high if the tenant refuses to move out. Sometimes, the tenant asks for a substantial amount of money (I believe 5% of the value of the property!!!) which is NOT seen as extortion in a court of law. But to help the tenant with the costs of moving, remodeling a new apartment/house etc.

Here are two articles in German (wished I could find an English version) based on German law which explains a bit the laws and the process:

http://www.makler-vergleich.de/immobilien-vermieten/mieter-kuendigen.html

http://www.makler-vergleich.de/immobilien-vermieten/mieter-kuendigen/grund/eigenbedarfskuendigung.html

I wished there would be an easier way that Lizzardo could get back her house in Aruba.

CK1
04-16-2015, 08:56 PM
Here is a good article which explains some of Aruba's law:

Rental market is strongly pro-tenanthttp://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Caribbean/aruba/Landlord-and-Tenant

gaby
04-17-2015, 07:05 AM
Thank you CK1. I worked in court for over 25 years and though it was not lower court, I do know it was difficult but not years worth. Even if you didn't pay your mortgage, it took about 6 months but you forfeited your house if there were foreclosure proceedings. This thing in Aruba is a joke. It is beyond their law and just basically saying the tenant has rights, the landlord has zero rights and please feel free to come to our country and basically screw any landlord you can find stupid enough to rent to you.

I believe the lesson here is either live in the house full time or don't buy one on this island. even if you buy one and come a few times a year, there is still the chance someone can see you're not here for a few months at a time and basically move in (squatter) and you are in trouble as happened to someone else on this forum. I think I'll just rent and if I want to invest in property, it will be in the USA.

act1966
04-17-2015, 10:27 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting_in_the_United_States

I think this is a tricky issue no matter where you buy.

gaby
04-17-2015, 11:19 AM
the only difference is in the US, squatters are harder to get out of vacant bldgs. Not so with rental places. If a rental is vacant for a couple of months waiting for a tenant, that squatter would be out in no time. its harder when its a vacant bldg basically falling into ruins. in the USA, its harder to get a tenant out if they are paying rent, though no longer than 3 months I've ever seen in 25 years in court. Foreclosures take longer.

But what's happening in Aruba would not happen here or many places. This seems like it borders on "let's just annoy the Americans", lol. I'm not saying its so but I seriously can not believe that a Judge of any caliber can not see through this and say okay, enough is enough, you've had your fun, get out now, give them back their house. I'm sorry, no one is going to convince me that there is not some inside shenanigans going on here.

Andrea J.
04-17-2015, 11:38 AM
with all due respect gaby it did and it does happen here in the usa...it took us 3+ years for us to throw our tenants out from an investment property in MA beginning in 1998.
non payment of rent for 18 mos and the judge sided with the tenant and said "she has lost her job and has young children, give her the benefit to stay and try to find work"
finally another 19 mos went by and another judge tossed their sorry bums!

we lost over $50K and had to pay court costs.


and in regard to this housing tenant landlord dilemma, I quote Robert Evans:

There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each differently.

aquaman
04-17-2015, 11:49 AM
the only difference is in the US, squatters are harder to get out of vacant bldgs. Not so with rental places. If a rental is vacant for a couple of months waiting for a tenant, that squatter would be out in no time. its harder when its a vacant bldg basically falling into ruins. in the USA, its harder to get a tenant out if they are paying rent, though no longer than 3 months I've ever seen in 25 years in court. Foreclosures take longer.

But what's happening in Aruba would not happen here or many places. This seems like it borders on "let's just annoy the Americans", lol. I'm not saying its so but I seriously can not believe that a Judge of any caliber can not see through this and say okay, enough is enough, you've had your fun, get out now, give them back their house. I'm sorry, no one is going to convince me that there is not some inside shenanigans going on here.


Gaby. This seems like it borders on "let's just annoy the Americans", lol. I'm not saying its so


i am aware of others in the same predicament and they are NOT Americans

Sad this has become a thread where different cultures and the differences of people's is being criticized

i wonder if Anyone can indicate what it would take to get this Dutch law amended.

J

gaby
04-17-2015, 12:21 PM
I can't answer for MA, only for NJ. And I am so familiar with three sides to a story since every judge quotes that ad nauseum in court, lol. I even had a brief form for it, lol.

brady bear
04-17-2015, 01:38 PM
Very sad... renters have more rights then the "owners"
We rented our house in Cape Cod and they were not paying their rent. Cutting trees down on our property for the fireplace.
The judge there gave them more time and continued because they had "kids" Well we did too.

CK1
04-17-2015, 08:54 PM
Thank you CK1. I worked in court for over 25 years and though it was not lower court, I do know it was difficult but not years worth. Even if you didn't pay your mortgage, it took about 6 months but you forfeited your house if there were foreclosure proceedings. This thing in Aruba is a joke. It is beyond their law and just basically saying the tenant has rights, the landlord has zero rights and please feel free to come to our country and basically screw any landlord you can find stupid enough to rent to you.

I believe the lesson here is either live in the house full time or don't buy one on this island. even if you buy one and come a few times a year, there is still the chance someone can see you're not here for a few months at a time and basically move in (squatter) and you are in trouble as happened to someone else on this forum. I think I'll just rent and if I want to invest in property, it will be in the USA.

You are welcome, Gaby. First, I want to say that I feel very sorry for Lizzardo, that this situation is going on for so long. I'm no expert to the law and I don't know why the judge is allowing this to go on for that long, I guess this lawyer tenant found a loophole in the contract and knows how to argue in court to his favor. Unfortunately, it's a lousy lease agreement which gave him already an advantage, IMO.

I don't blame the Aruban or Dutch law as they seem familiar to me. I spent half my life in Germany which has similar laws but also many years here in the US, I have been a tenant and a property owner and a landlord myself. There are advantages and disadvantages in all countries. We had rental property here in the US and they way tenants lived and acted was horrific. Only in a few cases did we get some money back when the apartment was damaged and filthy, in most cases we had to cut our losses and move on. Tenants signed 6-month leases but disappeared often after a few months, I always thought of "Richard Kimble" from the movie "Fugitive". LOL Quite the opposite what I was used living in Germany.

My impression is: A lot of the laws regarding tenants/landlords are from former times, like 20 or 30 years ago, when 30% or more of the population in the Netherlands (or Germany) could not afford to buy an apartment or a home but they had to rent. Usually, people would then live many, many years in that rented apartment/house, some even decades. It became their home. Moving out would be a big deal. Not only emotionally, but also financially. Many times, apartments are a blank slate, no kitchen, nothing. The tenant would then buy their own kitchen and furniture. There are no built-in closest, people bought their own "schrank". Moving into another apartment could be stressful as many times the kitchen or other furniture would not fit into the new apartment, rooms can be differ a lot. Another problem is availability of rental properties. Sometimes, it's very hard to find a new apartment. There can be up to 100 applicants for one apartment! I remember as well that it was very common to have a clause in a lease agreement: the apartment has to be left in the same good condition as it was when moved in!~ Which means, if it was freshly painted or new wall paper, the tenant is to have it painted or freshly wall papered again when moving out (after a few years). That can be expensive as well. And it might be a reason why the court would allow that the tenant is asking for some money if he is forced to move out.

I'm just trying to explain that it's such a different mindset or tradition between the countries. The laws were probably based on protecting good people. It angers me that someone like in Lizzardo's case is able to take advantage.

CK1
04-17-2015, 09:06 PM
Gaby. This seems like it borders on "let's just annoy the Americans", lol. I'm not saying its so


i am aware of others in the same predicament and they are NOT Americans

Sad this has become a thread where different cultures and the differences of people's is being criticized

i wonder if Anyone can indicate what it would take to get this Dutch law amended.

J

The German law just got amended in May 2013 due to economically losses, landlords loosing rental income etc.

I guess if there are too many sleazebags taking advantage of the system, the courts and lawmakers finally had enough and made it easier for landlords.

The article is in German:

http://www.anwalt.de/rechtstipps/neues-mietrecht-seit-mai-die-wichtigsten-aenderungen-teil-ii-verzug-beitreibung-raeumung_043904.html

Andrea J.
04-19-2015, 09:53 PM
this thread is now locked.

i have instructed forum member Lizzardo, that if there are any updates/changes, for her to message me and i will post it on her behalf.

andrea